Q&A on Islam

CM · Post by CM » Fri Mar 29, 2002 2:56 pm

Now with the whole sept 11th thing and the recent stuff today, Islam has come into the spot light a great deal.
I was just going to offer people the chance to ask any questions they have on Islam.
I will try to answer the question to the best of my abilities.

It is up to the mods if they want to keep this thread open.
So ask away, if this thread is closed, feel free to pm me with any and all questions.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:24 pm

This is hard to say ....

I'm very interested in Islam, and respect it as a religion of the book...

But I'm also concerned with women issues. And I know that it's the culture of certrain countries more than Islam, but it still does concern me....

Does Islam really regard women as so much less than men?

CM · Post by CM » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:29 pm

Depending from what aspect you look at it from.

A man can marry 4 women, only on the acceptance of the 1st that there should be a second and that both the 1st and 2nd agree for a third.
To some that shows a inferior stance to women.

One thing that is extremely wrong with islamic society on a whole, is what is preached is not practiced.
Women can vote, but in Saudi, Kuwait and other nations they are not alllowed to.
Women deserve an education, but in Afghanistan and Sudan they are provided limited chances to do so.

It would be easier on me and i could give you a better answer if you were more detailed in what you want to know.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:34 pm

One thing that is extremely wrong with islamic society on a whole, is what is preached is not practiced

This is not limited to Islam exclusively. I don't really know that much about it, but I am interested to see what I can learn in this thread.

VoodooDali · Post by **VoodooDali** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:35 pm

CM--do you think most Muslims pay more attention to the teachings of the Koran or the Hadith? It seems to me from my reading that most of the practices that upset people over here, like the veil, come from the Hadith.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:37 pm

Originally posted by CM
Depending from what aspect you look at it from.

A man can marry 4 women, only on the acceptance of the 1st that there should be a second and that both the 1st and 2nd agree for a third.
To some that shows a inferior stance to women.

One thing that is extremely wrong with islamic society on a whole, is what is preached is not practiced.
Women can vote, but in Saudi, Kuwait and other nations they are not alllowed to.
Women deserve an education, but in Afghanistan and Sudan they are provided limited chances to do so.

It would be easier on me and i could give you a better answer if you were more detailed in what you want to know.

Actually you have dealt with some of the concerns I have.

With multiple wives...I really can't say. It strikes me as 'wrong', but what kind of 'world self-involved' judgement is that? Looking at it from another angle..is not a threesome rather like one man wedding two women? As I have no ethical problems with THAT relationship (the threesome), why do I have qualms with making the situation legal? Hmm...will have to think on that

I had heard of lack of education, the inablilty of women to control money etc...

Also that abuse of women in the home was accepted as a way to keep marital peace? I just don't like that

But again...this may not be 'Islam', it may be the culture of the countries?

CM · Post by CM » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:41 pm

Ok the issue of the veil.

Now the hadis and Islamic teachings say that women should cover themselves infront of men - not of their family or husbands famliy.
The covering should be till the ankles and wrists.
The veil is a choice.
Solely a choice.
It by Islamic conduct and law be forced on a woman.

My mom and sis don't wear a veil.
Nobody in my family does.
It is not prominent in Indonesia or Malaysia.
From what i can see it is manily in the fundamentalist arab countries like Saudi and Kuwait.
The Persian gulf on a whole.

Iran does not make it law anymore, same in Pakistan, Egypt etc.
Hope that answers your query Voodoo.

BS correct, but most muslims have holier than thou attitude when it comes to the western societies.
And they complain that Islam is demonised in those societies.
Yet they practice in some cases the opposite of what is preached.

CM · Post by CM » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:46 pm

Viv, from my knowledge you can't spend the night with more than 1 wife.
homosexuality is frowned upon in islam, be it male or female.
In bed with 2 women is pretty close to that.
So you can't do that under Islam.
But i will look it up and come back with an answer in a couple of days with a definitive answer.

Abuse of women in what way?
Could you give examples of said abuse?
If you mean hitting a woman?
Yes it is permitted only after 3 things are done before.

1. You discuss the issue.
2. You don't speak sleep etc with her.
3. I think you leave the house or send her to live with her family.
4. You hit her, but not brutal beatings.
That no religion would permit.

Also the Arabs on are whole are very macho, ignornat and arrogant.
Saudi is an excellent case where things have gone very very wrong.

Vivien · Post by **Vivien** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:51 pm

CM,
Thank you for taking the time to explain a few things to me.

I am going to drop out of the discussion now as I'm a wimp when it comes to discussing potentially emotional (for me) issues, but I appreciate you're open candor. *hug*

CM · Post by CM » Fri Mar 29, 2002 4:56 pm

No problem viv, but if you have any more questions feel free to ask no matter how sensitive.
To all: I am not going to turn this into a preachy thread - so i will not be giving direct verses from the Quran or the hadis.
That would not be apprecated by some, and i won't feel comfortable doing it.
However if you want exact quotes and stuff, just ask.
I have a translated version in to english by the former Advisor to King Faisal of Saudi Arabia.
It is a very accurate version in my opinion.
The man who translated it, is what people would describe a liberal conservative (something i have been called many times) if you want i can explain what that means.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 7:23 pm

Originally posted by CM
One thing that is extremely wrong with islamic society on a whole, is what is preached is not practiced.
Women can vote, but in Saudi, Kuwait and other nations they are not alllowed to.

Don't let it bend you too far out of shape. Women were denied the vote and education until the 20th century in Europe and the US.

CM · Post by CM » Sat Mar 30, 2002 2:32 am

Correct Fable, however today they are allowed to do so everywhere.
Islam allows it as well, but that is not what is practiced.
I don't like the mis-representation of the religion that Saudi and Kuwait protray to the rest of the world.
Women have as much rights as men.
Saudi violates an Islamic Law (Shariah) yet it gets away with it.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 10:06 am

Originally posted by CM
Correct Fable, however today they are allowed to do so everywhere.
Islam allows it as well, but that is not what is practiced.
I don't like the mis-representation of the religion that Saudi and Kuwait protray to the rest of the world.
Women have as much rights as men.
Saudi violates an Islamic Law (Shariah) yet it gets away with it.

@CM, the perversion of religious doctrine is common, and happens everywhere. In the US, Christianity is regularly used to eliminate the teaching of evolution in classrooms, the presence of some books in libraries, the practice of other religions in many smaller communities, and even the right of a woman to abort a fetus when she's near death. These are practices that the historical Jesus would have found shocking, yet they're all regularly done and justified in his name.

I don't blame Christianity. I target human nature, which has the ability to perform the most selfless deeds and then turn aroiund and justify the most revolting acts. Islam has its problems, but keep a global perspective. You'll hurt a lot less.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 11:07 am

Originally posted by CM
A man can marry 4 women, only on the acceptance of the 1st that there should be a second and that both the 1st and 2nd agree for a third.
To some that shows a inferior stance to women.

Just to add CM reply here if any of you ask why a man can't marry more than 4. It's because Muhammad himself only got 4 IIRC )Am I right CM ?) Other things to be considered when a married man takes another woman as his wife is he (the man) able to support another woman as another wife. So the previlage to have more than 1 wife also comes with responsibility to support a large family as well

EMINEM · Post by **EMINEM** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 11:30 am

Muslim claim the Koran to be the word of God. What objective, historical, textual, expirical, and archaeological evidence (if any) can be used to support this claim?

Why was Salman Rushdie marked for death after publishing the Satanic Verses, a book that cast doubt on the Koran's legitimacy and reliability?

Will a university professor in a Muslim country (ie. Saudi Arabia) be fired from his job if he publishes a book with a similar theme, or publishes a paper undermining the authenticity of Islamic Scriptures?

Are Muslims allowed to question the authenticity of the Koran in the same way Christians are allowed (even encouraged) to question the authenticity of the Bible to see if what it says is true, and its moral teaching applicable? Is it against the law (written or unwritten) to do this?

Do Muslim teachers and clerics also encourage their followers to do this?

Is there a Muslim Voltaire, Strauss, Bultmann, Crossan, Russel, or Shaw (prominent critics of Christianity and the Old and New Testaments)? If so, what books have they published? Where can a young, impressionable Muslim student find them?

Thanx in advance.

You've chosen a interesting and I think important and necessary topic to cover.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 11:39 am

Before continuing the discussion, I think the right spelling for Islamic Holy Book is Qoran. No offense @ anyone

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:25 pm

Not that anyone would do this

. but let’s not have any axe grinding. It was generous of CM to offer to answer questions, particularly knowing tensions can run hot when Islam is the topic, and he seems to being doing a fine job giving us his honest perspective.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 3:49 pm

I'll lay it on the line, because this is a sore point with Buck. This thread will not degenerate into attacks on Islam or Arabic culture. If attempts are made along these lines, said members of this forum who attempt to do so will no longer be members.

This thread was kindly started by CM to answer general questions about Islam. So let's keep it focused, and avoid asking about the literary history of nations whose religion happens to be Islam. If somebody wants to debate the merits of Salman Rushdie's works, start another thread. This thread also isn't meant to be a debating society that puts one of the world's major religions on trial. That's not what CM had in mind when he graciously started this discussion.

If anybody strongly disagrees with the above, by all means PM Buck and me.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:09 pm

Not that Fable needs any back up on this, but I agree completely.

Now for a back on track question;
@CM,
Am I correct in believing that the Quran forbids the use of peoples images in art and architecture? Or is that strictly a taboo on trying to show Allahs image?
I'm curious since I remember some beautiful examples of middle eastern architecture from art history class (so very long ago)

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 4:20 pm

Originally posted by EMINEM
Muslim claim the Koran to be the word of God. What objective, historical, textual, expirical, and archaeological evidence (if any) can be used to support this claim?

I believe Muslim also acknowledge both Old and New Testaments as Holy Books, and Qoran includes the same people in those books (ie. Virgin Mary, Solomon and Moses, as far as I can remember). They regard Christians and Jews as "People of the Book".

If you begin asking questions like this, it wouldn't be a question about Islam, but about any religion or existance of god/s. Therefore, I don't think it is appropriate in this thread.