Is this cheating?...

dragonbane · Post by **dragonbane** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:21 pm

...using about five potions of master theivery on one of youre thieves to increase their thieving stats - specifically the pick pocketing ability (increased to about 250 points or something along those lines) and finding a black market thief to buy and steal repeatedly, with little chance of being caught, thus producing an infinate amount of booty (gold, mind you

)

I did this once or twice in some previous games I've played, but I can't shrug off the nagging feeling that I'm cheating somehow...stealing is stealing, but this feels wrong...

Oh, and another point...when the pick pocketing ability is increased to over 250 points, the next pick pocket attempts always fails. Maybe there is a cap that I am unaware of...but it may also be some kind of bug.

Thank you for your input

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:24 pm

hehe, well, in the BG realm its not cheating, unless you are of a lawful alignment.

In the DnD universe, if you drink 2 potions in a day you explode or something

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:24 pm

It's not cheating, because the possibility for it exists in the game without any alteration to the code by the player.

It's pure cheese, though: a cheap way around the game mechanics, exploiting its problems.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:14 pm

I see, you have not met User yet

Obsidian and Fable are right, it's not cheese to drink one potion too many, just as it's not cheese to set one Spike trap too many

As long as the game mechanics allow it

There is an old thread about cheating that is some food for thought though.

samcu · Post by **samcu** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:33 pm

I will used some logical theories that is consistent with this world.

Personally I think it is cheating to a degree, because you are exploiting something that wasn't meant to be.

We can steal stuff from people, but we will never sell it back to those we steal from, do we? Realistically, you will pawn it off other retailers. However, I think it will be too pain-staking to travel from the Docks to the Bridge and visa-versa each time I want to make some dole. So I will do exactly what you did, except with a different frame of mind.

Setting traps and stealth is another story though...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:51 pm

hi dragon, i am user, and no i dont think its cheating cause, sorry buddy, this is a well known exploit and its been posted and rediscoverd many times. I love cheating, and cheats, and seriously, this one is rather boring. come up with a real winner, and then I will bestow it the highest honer,

"dragon, that is a tasty, tasty cheat!!"

but I see you have the raw talent, read a lot of posts, especially the cheese guild posts, about major cheese myslef and others have discovered over the years.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 12:30 am

Don't get caught in User's web!!

As Fable explained, it's not really cheating, but it's pure cheese
as you're taking advantage from a flow in the game...
At the very least, this is unfair...

Still, I have to consider it a minor issue, as MAJOR EVILNESS is spreading through the forum......

Rudar Dimble · Post by **Rudar Dimble** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 5:21 am

not cheating

Drinking potions of fire-giant strenght in combination with some defensive spells i also not considered cheating, although it makes a fight much easier. Potions of master thievery are ment to make stealing more easy, so why don't use them in your advantage

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:00 am

The common opinion seems to be: 'Cheat if you need to, because otherwise the game will become frustrating, but if you just want to change your stats to 20 in everything and give yourself every item, you shouldn't, because it will make the game boring'.

I must give User credit for destroying this confused predjudice, and BG-Fan credit for unceasingly namechecking User and telling everyone how great he is...

It is evident that User's game (for example) will not be ruined by cheating, so the 'ruin your game' thing is wrong...

The other issue is, what about the soloing Kensai/Mage who completed the whole of SoA and ToB and got to level 40+ and spent an hour rolling dice before the game. Noone would say 'you're cheating', because the player has not done anything outside the rules, however, I would not be at all surprised if they had 20 in every Stat and abilities so powerful that nothing challenged them at all. They are not 'cheating', and will no doubt have praise poured upon them, but none the less their game is ruined...

IMHO cheating is a useless word in Galdur's Gate. There are thousands of dodgy exploits and thousands of ways to over-power your char without using them. We shouldn't think about whether something is 'cheating' or 'not cheating' we should think about whether something is good roleplaying. If you have a Lawful Good char, then don't steal stuff and then sell it back for money, because it's bad roleplaying, whereas if you're not roleplaying, just powergaming, then feel free (but remember you could just CLUA the gold in and save yourself some effort. Either one is just as cheesy, and just as bad rolelaying).

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:27 am

Assasin! Assasin!

I must give User credit for destroying this confused predjudice, and BG-Fan credit for unceasingly namechecking User and telling everyone how great he is...

Character assasin!

I do have a mind of my own, you know. <sniffs>

Now, if only I can get the great User to agree to that...

Gotta agree with the re-rolling of dice and roleplaying bits; at the end of the day, it's just beating/exploiting the computer AI, it's fun if the player doesn't take his role seriously

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 1:57 am

Potions fo the SAME KIND should not stack.
This is why I consider it cheese.

Anyway, I think User basically plays AGAINST HIMELF...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:20 am

professionally, once i get back to work, i am a CCNA and cne 3.12....

i fix servers and routers, and cheating, is not cheating but major slaps on the back, and after I make a squinty hack, and fix a problem by bypassing the issue, I get raises and bonuses.

like the time I fixed a mail server by disabling the license logging in service, so the server thought it was ok to add accounts. I enjoy the hacking, yes I guess I am a hacker, though not programming background, so i enjoy stretching the game engine and seeing how far I can push an effect, within game limits. so i dont edit the magic resist tables, but enjoy seeing how far you can within game rules it can be hacked.

the kensai sorc is not a deliberate attempt to create a god, but a attempt to see which affects carried over if you change a class via sk.

i noted the best magic resist items were mage issue, but the best magic resist setting item is paladin only. so out comes use any item, and voila!!!

all my cheese and hacks are experiments, and even the expanded spell tables for my original super sorc were experiments in summons and projected image as fighter.

i enjoy the game just fine, and hacking just adds to the enjoyment, as far as I am concerned. its a different way of looking at a game, as a network engineer, rather than a user.

hence userunfriendly....

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:47 am

Musings

No harm with experimenting, forging new paths and making incidental discoveries. This might offend the purists, both in real life and in games, but I guess we will have it no other way. Even hackers (white hat or otherwise) have a role to play

Where would we be today if we had just stuck to the straight and narrow?

I may even go so far as to say that objectivity is foreign to research, as we all strive to find the results that we want to find, be it a new way to fix networking or another way to play a game.

Who guards the guards, anyway?