Bows in BG2 comapred to BG1

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:12 am

How come bows suck in BG2,
in BG1 my archers always had the most kills, and where the most effective against small, but also against tougher enemy´s.
And a solo charcter can´t finish without one.

In BG2 even my solo charcters and mages hardly ever use bows.

What makes them so good in BG1 (or so lousy in BG2) ???

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:23 am

Originally posted by Stilgar
How come bows suck in BG2,
in BG1 my archers always had the most kills, and where the most effective against small, but also against tougher enemy´s.
And a solo charcter can´t finish without one.

In BG2 even my solo charcters and mages hardly ever use bows.

What makes them so good in BG1 (or so lousy in BG2) ???

Well, I always equip Mazzy with Tulgian (sometimes Tasheron) and it/they worked fine...

I guess the difference between BG 1 and 2 is that in SoA, you have the proficiency thing (you know */s) whereas in BG1, it's more straightforward without kits.

A case in point will be an example of Minsc and Mazzy; no contest as she has better short bow proficiency. Not to say that bows suck though, there are just better alternatives around (there are some very good slings eg).

My two cents

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:46 am

Re: Re: Bows in BG2 comapred to BG1

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan

Not to say that bows suck though, there are just better alternatives around (there are some very good slings eg).

Is there really a distance weapon that does more damage than the bows?!

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:42 am

Slight Spoiler

Originally posted by Astafas

Is there really a distance weapon that does more damage than the bows?!

Slight spoiler:
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Sling of Avoreen does +4 missile damage at a 60 feet area with a speed factor of 2. That's quite fast, quite damaging and covers quite a good distance by my books. Not to mention sonic boom once a day. One-handed weapon.

Is there a better bow?

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:46 am

Originally posted by Astafas
Is there really a distance weapon that does more damage than the bows?!

I guess the main advantage a sling has over a bow, is that you can still wear a shield. @Baldursgate Fan: from all the bows, personally, I like the Heartseeker+3 (especially for its special ability)... my fighter (virtually) never misses with it (too bad some monsters are immune to missile damage)!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:23 am

Re: Slight Spoiler

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan

Slight spoiler:
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Sling of Avoreen does +4 missile damage at a 60 feet area with a speed factor of 2. That's quite fast, quite damaging and covers quite a good distance by my books. Not to mention sonic boom once a day. One-handed weapon.

Is there a better bow?

Sure, but haven't you forgot about the rate of fire/number of attacks?

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 7:30 am

Re: Re: Slight Spoiler

Originally posted by Astafas

Sure, but haven't you forgot about the rate of fire/number of attacks?

Fine, at what damage and what speed?

Is there really a distance weapon that does more damage than the bows?!

I believe "damage" was the subject of your original question, was it not?

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 9:58 am

Re: Re: Re: Slight Spoiler

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan

I believe "damage" was the subject of your original question, was it not?

Not sure I'm following you here. Don't you find it adequate to relate the damage of each hit to the number of times you actually hit?

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 10:02 am

Re: Re: Re: Re: Slight Spoiler

Originally posted by Astafas

Not sure I'm following you here. Don't you find it adequate to relate the damage of each hit to the number of times you actually hit?

And how are you going to do that without comparing apples with apples?

Would it be appropriate at this juncture to go through again the one-liner questions in your posts to ensure consistency in your line of questioning?

I have yet to hear your answer of whether there is a better bow? Or have I missed it in one of your posts?!

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:44 pm

No BG fan, there is probably not a better bow if you stacked the two items against one another. However, I'd rather have four attackes with the gesen bow in a round than one attack with the sling of avoreen. The sling might do more damage per individual attack, however, the sling is not going to attain the same rate of fire as a bow so in the long run the bow does more damage than the sling.

Now...back to the original question. The reason bows are so much better in BG1 is because the strength bonus is added to the damage of each arrow. Because this was so powerful, it was removed in BG2.

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:25 pm

@Ned,

Point taken. Thanks for clearing the air.

If this had been Mr Astafas' premise in the first place, I would be willing to concede the point.

For a moment, I had the distinct impression that his intention was not to help Stilgar with his question but to score cheap brownie points with one-liner trolling.

Obviously, he took an entirely novel and different approach.

Cheers.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:25 pm

Thanks Ned.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 3:32 pm

I'm 99.999999999% certain on the strength damage associated with bows in BG1. That way, I've got an easy out if someone refutes my claim.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:51 pm

Wasn't it only the eagle bow that added strength bonus damage?
Anyway, get Gesen and equip with normal arrows and you'll do some serious damage. I like bows, I still feel ranged weapons are far better then melee, they would have been totally superior were it not for the limited visual range.
I have played a game with 6 archers and it was very easy.

Blucher · Post by **Blucher** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 8:05 pm

Bow vs. Sling comparison:

Bow:
Two attacks per round.

Arrows of Biting give STR bonuses to damage (w/o the Baldurdash patch).

Arrows used with the Gesen Bow and Tashron's Bow stack with the phantom arrows.

Some arrows have nice 'specials' like dispelling, detonation, poison, acid, fire, etc. but arrows only go up to +3 enchantment.

Sling:
ALL magical bullets give STR damage bonuses.

Can use a shield.

No 'special' bullets (other than the ultra-rare sunstone bullet) but there are +4 sling bullets available (in ToB).

_A 7th level fighter with spec. in bows will get 3 attacks/round.

_A 7th level fighter with spec. in slings will get 2.5 attacks/round.

Bottom Line: Slings are better unless you are using arrows of biting (+1 enchantment) and Gesen/Tasheron's with a high STR character without the Baldurdash patch installed.

[edit: anyone have additional points?]

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Apr 19, 2002 7:50 pm

Actually slings and crossbows get one less attack per round then longbows and shortbows.
Most damaging ranged attack(melf and energy blade and BMU etc not included) is:
1. High level archer with GM in shortbows, 25 strength, Gesens's bow equipped with arrows of biting.
2. High level dwarven kensai with 25 str using Dwarven thrower( if the opponents is a giant or the like then this combo is the most damaging).
3.High level kensai with 25 str using rifthome or K'lo.... throwing axe
4. High level archer with firetooth crossbow and +3 bolts
5. High level archer with sling of everard, 25 strength and magical bullets( with +4 bullets this combo comes in 4th place, but since the firetooth doesn't require high strength it is better).
If you use slings with the reflection shield then you have a very good combo. Try a halfling barbarian with sling of everard and reflection shield and boots of speed. No one will catch you and no one will hit you with ranged attacks, wear cloak of mirroring and no one will hurt you at all.
One other thing to consider is that every time you hit an opponent you stop them in their track for a short time, meaning 4 attacks at 10 damage is better than 1 at 40. Tugian bow...
Also useful when you get high level abilities like deathblow.

Blastaz · Post by **Blastaz** » Sat Apr 20, 2002 9:13 am

I always thought the Sling of Striking (?) was a good back up weapon for viconia when combined with the necessary girdle of hill giant strength as that added in the strength bonus on top.