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If you want to complain about overpowered magic, your target should not be the lowly mage. I mean, sure he gets time stop and then deals you 96d6 points of fire damage all in the same round with no save. (3E rules) But, those kind of abilities don't come until 17th, 18th level (sorcerers suck because of the slower advancement in spells). The true death dealing machine is the 11th level cleric. A single harm and a quickened inflict light wounds will instantly kill anyone without spell resistence with no save. How many 500 hp dragons and 19th level fighters have fallen to the cleric with an AC of 18 and 54 hit points.
So, if you're going to complain about magic users- Pick on the clerics.
first-sorcerers do not suck. They get spells 1 level later than mages, and if you pick your spells right you can always have the right spell on hand.
2nd-picture this scenerio: a mage is walking through a dungeon. His barbarian companion is trying to smash down a door while the thief and cleric watch. The mage has no spells casted on him. A few goblins hear the comotion and sneak into the hallway. They attack using Javelins covered in poison. They throw there Javelins at the mage. 1 hits and brings him to uncousiness and then the poison finshes him. Thus, a rogue or even a fighter can take a mage down when hes not prepared, even at high levels.
3rd-clerics are annoying but there are ways to deal with them.. he he he
I think that perhaps there is a certain amount of short sightedness on the part of people who complain about the 3E rules. Can you please let me know what is wrong with them exactly? Don't just say you hate them, don't say that the 2E rules are better and don't complain just for the sake of complaining!
There is nothing wrong with the new rules set. As a matter of fact, most of the changes that we, as players and fans, requested are in the rules! Any race for any class, any multi-class and they even brought back the old school characters for us AD&D 1E players (monk/barbarian/half-orc) If you don't want to learn a new set of rules that is fine but that dose not make the new rules bad, It makes you lazy! By that way of thinking there would be no new computers (P2-P3-P4 processors) There would be no cell phones, there would be no progress! The originals worked fine!
People are strange when you're a
stranger. Faces look ugly when you're alone...
Mages may get slightly over-powered sometimes.
But if you think about it they need the extra ofensive power to make up for the lack of physical ability.
They mostly don't have the skills to the damage in 'hand to hand' combat, not even in the higher levels, and the magic offsets that and makes it fairer.
Boo and Chikita Fast-Paws sitting up a tree...
"He dropped to his knees to beg for mercy, which offered me height advantage as I smashed in his skull with a sledgehammer." - Viconia, BG2.
There will always people some way of saying that one char. is to powerfull over another.
But it is generally my experience that most time it is the player and not the class that is the "turning point".
Also remember that this game is a roleplaying game, it is not a frag-fest CS/Q3/UT game where combat is the prime motivater and the biggest gun is the most importent.
This is about roleplaying ones character with strenght and weakness.
Yes wizards can become quite powerful but a fighter of a similar level could take him out very quickly (even con mages). I think that a fighter has the advantage in a face to face fight if he strikes quickly with feats (or whatever the special abilities are called) massive damage will be done to the mage and the mage will not be able to cast protection spells while being hit. But if the wizard isn't given the opertunity to cast a few spells he will most likely win. I think that this evens things up.
Originally posted by Kokiwon Yes wizards can become quite powerful but a fighter of a similar level could take him out very quickly (even con mages). I think that a fighter has the advantage in a face to face fight if he strikes quickly with feats (or whatever the special abilities are called) massive damage will be done to the mage and the mage will not be able to cast protection spells while being hit. But if the wizard isn't given the opertunity to cast a few spells he will most likely win. I think that this evens things up.
I agree with you to an extent, the problem is, Mages can set up contingencies and use feats that increase spell casting speed and knock out a quick Abjuration spell, the Mage has an advantage if it is given a chance...
If you think back to BG2 and throne of Bhaal what was the easiest way to kill the powerful mages. It was to sind you fighters in and have your sling people and archers shooting the mage so he will fail to cast anything and spells from you mage weren't even needed accept maybe magic missiles and powerword stun (or what ever it's called). When I fought like this I couldn't even tell if the mage was powerful or not. Yes you did have a party with you but the mage was almost always a much higher lev than your party members.
Originally posted by Xandax There will always people some way of saying that one char. is to powerfull over another.
But it is generally my experience that most time it is the player and not the class that is the "turning point".
Also remember that this game is a roleplaying game, it is not a frag-fest CS/Q3/UT game where combat is the prime motivater and the biggest gun is the most importent.
This is about roleplaying ones character with strenght and weakness.
I think it's about the philosophy of the environment designer. Powerplayers will always seek ways to advance. RPGers will always seek methods of roleplaying. Chatters will always seek a Disneyesque environment to stop and talk about OOC things. Unless you remove advancement, it's tough keeping out the powerplayers, and roleplaying tends to get pushed to one side.
The problem I have with a graphical construction model is its visually static quality. In a text-based model, I can create entire cities revolving around cultural concepts that are foreign to the "Medieval Lite" style of AD&D, which we'll also find in NWN. I can put glowing rhymed moral couplets in exquisite calligraphy on apartment complex walls. I can create woven, seven-pointed rugs out of translucent fibers. I can hit the whole thing with an earthquake, and slot in new descriptions of damaged buildlings at once. But I can't do any of these things with a graphical construction set. However good it is (and mind you, the NWN construction set sounds great), I'm limited by the limitations imposed by AD&D's semi-monopoly. And I can't change that environment quickly, or add new elements to it.
I guess what I'm saying is that it sounds like a wonderful place to have fun, but not the be-all of roleplaying. MUCKs and MUSHs would still seem to offer more of that.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
I understand what you are saying and that may be true for many people who play text base game but I can't stand them and for people like me I think that nwn has the potential to be the most enjoyable gaming experience to date. I have been anxously waiting for the release (checking the news and info about the game every day) for about a year now and if this game doesn't turn out to be good I will be beyond pissed and will probably have to buy a mmorpg (most likely DAOC) very quickly or risk having a nervous breakdown. I am not joking I am kinda obsessed with the game and an haveing trouble waiting for it. Ok I am rambling on so I will shut up now.
(3E rules) But, those kind of abilities don't come until 17th, 18th level (sorcerers suck because of the slower advancement in spells). The true death dealing machine is the 11th level cleric. A single harm and a quickened inflict light wounds will instantly kill anyone without spell resistence with no save. How many 500 hp dragons and 19th level fighters have fallen to the cleric with an AC of 18 and 54 hit points. 
