Gateway or Dell?

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon May 20, 2002 10:36 am

I'm thinking of getting a new computer, but I don't want to spend a lot of money and I don't need a lot of shopping hassel or set up hassel. I'm thinking of just ordering one from somewhere, maybe looking for some kinda deal. I don't need anything really fancy (virtually any new computer would be an upgrade for me!) I just want something that will run BG2, IWD, NWN, etc, without the characters jumping all around and the computer needing to stop and think every few seconds.

My tendancy is to just go to Dell (since I think they are okay), but I could also try Gateway (the boxes they are shipped in are neat) or something else.

Suggestions? Opinions?

Thanks

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon May 20, 2002 10:44 am

You really can't lose in either case. All of the major computer manufacturers go to the same parts bins for their components, so what you're really paying for is build quality and service.

Here at work, we've had service contracts with both Gateway and Dell and both companies responded well from a customer service standpoint. I recommend both. I would not recommend any other compnay, including NEC, Toshiba, Sony, HP or Compaq, strictly because of their less-than-stellar service reputations (my own experience with HP and Compaq is not complimentary).

I had a friend who worked for Gateway as a sales rep and he says that Gateway doesn't always check compatibility on new components. For instance, he said that on month they had a sales special on tape drives, and that the associate who sold the most got a prize. So of course, everyone was pushing tape drives. Unfortunately, the hardware folks didn't bother to make sure that the tape drives worked with all of the other components they were putting together (there were apparently some OS conflicts and driver problems), but the sales people didn't care; after they moved the computers, that became tech support's problem. Dell may have the same attitude, but I don't know anyone who works, or has worked, for Dell to confirm or deny this.

If both companies will sell you the same machine, you're probably going to get about the same level of service out of each, so I would go with whoever can give you the best price.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Mon May 20, 2002 11:04 am

I will vouch for Gateways tech support. From a non techies pov, they are very responsive and very helpful. I've had 2 gateways now and both have worked well for me.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon May 20, 2002 11:12 am

A note about each:

Gateway is quicker to send a techie out to your door to fix your problem. We had a professor on campus who decided to "clean up" his hard drive and deleted some .dll files and crashed Windows. He spend about an hour on the phone with Gateway's tech support line, then they told him to sit tight and the next day at 9:00 am one of Gateway's contracted site techies showed up and fixed whatever was wrong.

Dell is quicker to get you to pop open the case and get inside to see if there are any hardware problems (cables not being seated correctly, etc.). I've called Dell a number of times with various problems (motherboard fried by lightning, damaged hard drives, etc.) and have never had any problems getting Dell to send me a new component with the option of either installing it myself or having one of their people take care of it (I usually did it myself).

Whatever computer you buy, be sure to get the longer warranty period (at least 3 years) even if you have to pay a little extra (it's worth it).

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Mon May 20, 2002 11:40 am

I'd agree with what everyone has had to say so far. A couple of other points:

another vendor to consider is micronpc. In the past, (I don't use them anymore at work so take these words for what you will) Micron has had very competitive prices with gateway and dell plus if you get a sales rep with any experience, they'll haggle if you start it. Free shipping, more memory, dell said this, blah blah blah; they will play ball. Adding to their competitive rates is excellent service. Get the three year service plan and they will send you any part, few questions. The drawback is I don't find their stuff as reliable as gateway or dell.

PC's are manufactured at such an alarming rate now, they're just not the same quality product they once were. Failure %age per batch is higher and so is the number of faulty products on the market. Woe is you if you get stuck with a lemon. Dell will do everything in their power to not replace the whole machine. Gateway is a little more receptive. The lemon clause is what you really need to work out in detail. Get it in writing where "If this machine is dead within 30,60,90 days, I want it replaced." Otherwise, they will just keep feeding you parts to replace which is acceptable but think of the down time.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon May 20, 2002 11:56 am

Thanks, everyone!

I feel better now. I've crossed the first hurdle (getting my wife to agree to a new computer), so now the second hurdle is to start shopping! Thanks!

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon May 20, 2002 12:34 pm

Well, I'd just like to through my two cents before you go out. I'm running a Dell right now, and I gotta tell ya, if you order from Dell, demand they put in a Geforce card, and double check the second it comes in. I custom order a computer from them last summer, Athlon, Geforce 3, etc, and what I got was a lower grade pentium, and Radeon DDR... Suffice it to say, I'm not impressed.

My advice would be to build yours from scratch. It's cheeper, and you gaurentee the parts you want.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:08 pm

In my opinion one should avoid Dell, they are becoming poor with their End User support. There computers are becoming less and less stable.

Lets put it this way, we installed two new Dell's for £799 and they have started crashing after 2 days of use. We bought in some units of our own for £295 (of the same spec) and they have run really well no crashing at all....i realise you don't want the hassle Gwally but it might be worth checking out some of the less commercial sites

It seems to me that the management set up the company to be the power it is and now they are going to make things for cheaper and cheaper in an effort to make more profits so they can obtain more money....oh i am a cynic

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:35 pm

Originally posted by Aegis
My advice would be to build yours from scratch. It's cheeper, and you gaurentee the parts you want.

That's what I did with the current computer at home, and the problem is that I can never remember what I put in it! So I load up ToB and hope the system can handle it, and instantly start thinking that I need a new computer. But I just don't have the time, and no much experience/technical know-how.

Hmmm. Dell isn't looking so hot, now....

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:43 pm

I will say one thing about both Dell and Gateway: Watch for the rip-offs. They love to tout their low prices on their websites, but if you custom configure anything they'll mess you. I was goofing off on both websites, and I remember upgrading something that should have been an extra $20 (hard drive upgrade). They added a good $70 for just that.

And most configurations come with at minimum one component that 90% of the people would want to upgrade.

I've never really had a problem with Dell/Gateway computers themselves, just be wary of this shady custom dealing going on (it's happening with all major vendors now).

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Tue May 21, 2002 12:00 am

I'm also in the market for a new computer, and not having a lot of time, I empathize with your situation. I have had four computers in the last ten years. The first one was a Gateway and is was a pretty good computer with good customer service. Unfortunately, the next computer was from a company named Xenon. Being very naïve about computers at that point, and being in med school, I went for what looked to be a good system at a reasonable price. It was a nightmare. I took the computer to a shop to add more RAM and they said they couldn't because the motherboard was damaged. They also pointed out how cheap all the components were and how I did not have the video card I had paid for. After losing 30% of my money to restocking fees, shipping, opened software, etc. I resolved never to go down that path again.

The sad truth is that there is no easy way to simply purchase a computer. We just bought a new car and it was considerably easier, but the fact remains that there is a certain amount of homework you have to do with any major purchase. There really are differences in chipsets, CPUs, sound cards, video cards, DVDs, etc. that, to me, are important to know -- especially if you are on a budget. For example, many high-end systems are using the NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600, but the Ti 4400 is almost comparable and you can save $100. Perhaps one solution to your situation is to do what I did on my last two computers: I had them built locally. I researched what I wanted and I had a local shop build it for me (with compromises, as always, like a beige case -- yuck). When something went wrong, I simply called them up or brought the computer back in. It has worked well for me.

As for vendors, I agree with Ned that both quality and customer service is slipping for any of the major computer vendors. One place to go in this regard is Epinions. For example, here is the URL for desktop computers: http://www.epinions.com/cmhd-Desktops-All. It really is a crap shoot if you go this route, no matter what the company's rep. In PC World, which I subscribe to, Dell it always top rated. In the really world, however, people seem to have mixed experiences with them. I am currently looking for a high-end gaming machine and I wonder if you have considered a gaming computer yourself, since that seems to be a focus for you. Alienware has some pretty powerful systems staring at $1400 (without a monitor). You could also check out VoodooPC, ViciousPC, or Falcon-NW (very spendy). I wouldn’t recommend NexGen -- I haven't heard very good things about them. I've put together something of buying guide as I've gone along. If you think it would be helpful, I can send it to you.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue May 21, 2002 9:49 am

Well, after spending about half a day shopping on line, and looking through various old threads at Gamebanshee, my brain is now fried (must be the ancient motherboard – I need an upgrade). This is what I was afraid of. It’s just not a simple process. Athlon or Intel? GeForce 4 or less? What do all those letters mean before “RAM”?

I agree with what everyone had said about building my own system (Thanks Ned!

), but I’m still worried about the time, even though the cost savings would be significant.

Thantor: I checked out the Alienware site on your advice as well as that of our company computer guy. I drooled over the prospect of having a machine dedicated to gaming (in Conspiracy Blue or Plasma Green

), but we also use home computer for work-stuff as well – for me it involves word processing, CAD graphics, and database stuff, for Mrs. Gwally it’s some pretty heavy duty database work, publishing, and presentations. I think we need to keep a professional appearance as well.

Voodoo’s observation in another thread that she couldn’t get a decent motherboard from Gateway or Dell has me worried. I wouldn’t know a good motherboard if it bit me in the *ahem*!

I have decided to try for a GeForce4 4400 graphics card if I can afford it, but GeForce 3 would be fine too, according to other threads. But I will shy away from anything that says 'MX'.

I know most people favor the Athlon cpus over Pentium, but my gut tells me to stick with Pentium 4 just because it seems that the better machines offered by places like Alienware highlight that cpu as a feature. Pentiums have been around, and I would hope to avoid compatibility problems (but I know nothing about this – it’s just a gut feeling).

The only other decisions I’ve made so far is to have 256 mB of some kind of RAM, an optical mouse, at least a 17” monitor, and that I’m better off getting speakers from Office Depot than any of those internet sites.

Besides that, I only have $1800 approved for spending. I’m tending toward Gateway, since they have two stores here in town, and they have those cool black cases.

I’ll keep everyone updated. Thanks for all the advice.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Tue May 21, 2002 10:46 am

I would say get a local guy to build one for you

Also, without getting to deep into the debate about bits and pieces, I would recommend you consider how long you wish to have this pc before replacing it. Generally, if you buy a shop built off the shelf machine it comes in a midi case. Fine if you are in the market to buy a new one in a year. Go for a full sized case, and you buy yourself a little time to upgrade/add on now and again.

My machine is four years old, but the only original parts of it are the A drive, my old C drive which is now D, and the casing. With a full size casing I have added another hard drive, a CD Re-writer (I could replace the old CDRom drive with DVD but have decided a full new system in a year) I still have space for another hard drive, and three more 3.5 inch slots for a tape streamer etc if I was so inclined.

I upgraded my motherboard and processor last year, when a gig was large!

Next year will be the full works, though I know I will still cannabilise from this machine before I leave it to the mercy of my kids

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue May 21, 2002 11:20 am

Originally posted by Gwalchmai
I know most people favor the Athlon cpus over Pentium, but my gut tells me to stick with Pentium 4 just because it seems that the better machines offered by places like Alienware highlight that cpu as a feature. Pentiums have been around, and I would hope to avoid compatibility problems (but I know nothing about this – it’s just a gut feeling).

He might be right since recent benchmarks by Toms Hardware Guide show that P4's are becoming faster than AMD's, the truth is that they are pretty close at the moment in speed and either would be good. If you are fitting it yourself it would also be better to go with Pentium, if you make a mistake mounting the heatsync on an AMD chip you will fry the chip and possibly have a dead motherboard along with the chip

On the issue of compatibility, i have only had one game not work and that was Blade Runner. They seem to work with everything that i know of. AMD have also been around for just as long as Pentium, we have an old machine in work that is an AMD 100Mhz

I’m better off getting speakers from Office Depot than any of those internet sites.

Personally go with some Cambridge Soundworks full Dolby Surround 5.1

Check out the last 2 much like the alienware.....*drool* If i had a spare 1300 i would buy one

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Tue May 21, 2002 10:11 pm

Quick note: If you're going Geforce4, grab a 4200. The added price of a 4400 is not worth the tiny increase in speed.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Thu May 23, 2002 12:45 pm

Quick update: I'm considering the Geforce 3 card, since any of the 4s are pricey. Dell offers a 5% education discount, while Gateway only offers 2% and then only if you ask specifically.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Thu May 23, 2002 12:47 pm

Play one off the other. Tell Gateway that Dell will sell you a machine with X,Y,Z components in it for $150 less and vice versa. They'll deal.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Thu May 23, 2002 1:43 pm

The GeForce 3 is better or 'as good' as the GeForce 4. Make sure you don't get duped into a vid card that supports tv out and video capture and multiple monitors unless those gizmos are your sort of thing. TV out and multiple monitor are pretty useless, IMHO, for the home market. If video capture is important, go the route of a dvd writer and using a digital camcorder downloading via fire wire.

HLD is right, if you're going through a vendor, play 'em off one another and by all means get a 3 year overnight front to back top to bottom parts and labor warranty thingy.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:08 am

Originally posted by Quark
Quick note: If you're going Geforce4, grab a 4200. The added price of a 4400 is not worth the tiny increase in speed.

I am in agreement, a lot of the Ti 4400's and 4600's are the same as the 4200's but have extra features, if you are not into video capturing or TV in/out then it is best to get a 4200

I doubt that Dell or Gateway are willing to do the 4200 since it is relatively new.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Fri May 24, 2002 6:29 am

A few things to look for:

If you're going for a Pentium 4 system stay away from RDRAM. It may be the better memory technology for the P4's but Intel have abandoned it after finally caving in to industry pressure to support DDR SDRAM, so it may get a bit harder to get hold of over time if you plan on upgrading. Another consideration that may well save you heaps is to look at the newer breed of Celeron. I know, they were originally a cut down budget 'rent-a-cpu', but Intel have released a new version based on the P4 core. Essentially they are now a relabeled P4 with a 256K L2 cache, so you get full use of the 133MHz bus, all the extended SSE and SSE2 instruction sets and everything, at a much lower price than the latest and greatest P4!

Graphics power is a big plus these days, but the differences between the various models of Geforce 4 aren't that much. For the most part it's extra memory, or for the 4600 an extra pipeline. For most games a 4200 is going to be more than enough.

Gateway have a bit of a bad reputation here now, and Dell have never really been very big, so I'm a bit biased towards a build-your-own system, or something custom made by a local assembler. This also makes upgrades much easier and cheaper.