Originally posted by Bruce Lee Well there is always protection from magic scrolls... hmm deja vu... I remember this discussion, but anyway magic user wins battle but Keldorn is a great NPC.
Imprisonment bypasses magic resistance.
@Littiz-Maybe we should just leave it to Jan and his collection of stories. Keldorn'll commit suicide in no time!
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Yeah but it doesn't bypass protection from magic. Therefore the only way for a warrior like Keldorn to battle a wizard is to cast one on himself and one on the wizard. If he manages that he'll win, if not he'll lose.
I didn't know Prot. from magic stopped Imprisonment. Can any class (aside from Wizard Slayer) use the scrolls of Protection from Magic?
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Isn't there a minimum int. requirement just to be able to read scrolls anyway?
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Yeah I think so...but as Loffelur's Keldorn has an int of 12 I don't think it applies. Its only when intelligence is really low...IIRC Minsc would always have trouble with a wand of magic missiles or protection from undead scroll
But protection from magic would kill the contest...nothing would bring it down...the mage would just have to hide somewhere till it ran out.
I actually have never used Prot from Magic scroll so I don't know for sure, but does it stop item effects? If not wouldn't you just wait it out with SotM invis (reinvising constantly to defeat true sight).
Ok just tested it and it works. So all scroll of prot from magic does is delay matters by 10 turns. I don't know if the prot from magic would stop true sight on an enemy and I can't really test it out but even if not just get RSI clicking for a couple mins to requip SotM while running around.
2nd edit: Forgot to add that if he casts on self of course its trivial to just invis and wait it out since now he can't even true sight. Actually for a dual/multi mage type that wouldn't be necessary as prot magic doesn't seem to stop the effect of timestop so timestop and blender would still work.
@ Glod; methinks I was a bit hasty earlier, but I did say that running away and hiding would beat the prot from magic (and it would really annoy the paladin's sense of fair play)
If only he had the sim helmet instead... That is unless the mage had previously cast true sight...
Are you really, really sure that prot. from magic works against imprissonment? I am recalling it didn't for me when I was fighting the demi lich in watchers keep.
Originally posted by Pe Ell Are you really, really sure that prot. from magic works against imprissonment? I am recalling it didn't for me when I was fighting the demi lich in watchers keep.
Yes, it does. That is my standard tactic for taking out Kang'gax early on. However, it only lasts for a limited time (pretty long, though) and there aren't many of them.
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Originally posted by Pe Ell Are you really, really sure that prot. from magic works against imprissonment? I am recalling it didn't for me when I was fighting the demi lich in watchers keep.
I've used PfM against Kangaxx (and it always works a treat) but never the other demi lich; against that one I usually stick with protection from undead as there's no dialogue dependant stuff which PfU messes up when facing Kang. (unless you time it well)
Consider me corrected then. I actually think it was protection from magic >energy< I tried to use, because I had nothing else then(wasn't prepared for a demi-lich).
@kopy
Very possible I'm just being slow here, but what difference does the sim helm make?
The one issue that occurs to me would be that if true sight can penetrate the prot magic and expose you (not sure if it can or not) then with AI on and a missile weapon Keldy might be able to do some damage by firing in the brief interval between exposure and reinvis. Our interpid mage would want a good sized supply of sup healing potions to weather the storm. Of course if the mage was dual and had the reflection shield ....
Assuming Keldorn had the sim helmet and the only 2 scrolls of PfM that exist in BG2 he could use one on himself and when that ran out he could use the simulacrum from the helmet to cast another one on him. Then when that ran out he could use the second scroll for real.
OR, if you want cheese and Keldorn had a bag of holding, he could recharge the sim helmet by stuffing it in there, bringing it out and getting another simulacrum. Etc ad infinitum.
But if the mage had true sight cast, this would kill Keldorns sim.
Oh yeah, I just tried it and Keldorns special abilities CAN be cast while he's under PfM...including summon Planetar... Loffelur doesn't say which high level abilities his Keldorn has other than he has some greater whirl winds. But at level 32 there might be alot of planetars to deal with... (but only one at a time). At lower levels he'd still be able to fling some high powered dispell magics around though from the safety of his anti-magic shell. Just depends if the mage has the SotM and the cloak of non detection though...
This whole talk about PFM scroll is premature. Keldorn will never get to read the scroll. The fight starts mages spells will go off first, Keldorn is dead meat.
I'm shocked some actually think a fighter can take down a mage of the same level. The only way I can see this happening is if the mage is out of spells , contingencies, and triggers. Then it would be Keldorn killing a helpless person. Quite the noble act.
Thats right simulacrum is not effected by true sight... project image however is.
Without one use items there is no contest. Mage wins hands down. However BG2 isn't one on one and I believe Keldorn to be a more valuable NPC than Edwin.
Any party can beat the game but it is easier with a fighter heavy than a magic heavy... however it is more fun with a magic heavy... well in my opinion anyway.
@kopy
The sim helm gives him an effectively longer duration PfM scroll but doesn't change the fundamental invis and wait it out strategy. Just gives the participants extra time for thumb twiddling.
@Bruce
With a fighter heavy group you don't have to rest often or do as much clicking during the fights, but I don't know that this makes it really easier. A collection of mages can usually wipe a room clean before the enemy has time to do anything, doesn't get much easier than that.
Ofcourse they can, especially if you have played the game before...
I am saying that if you play the game for the first time a mage heavy group will give you many more reloads than a fighter heavy group. Not that it matters much though. A mage heavy group will also have you thinking a bit more. The potential is higher, however casting the wrong spell will give you serious problems.
You're right sims aren't killed by true sight...even though the manual says thay should be...ah well, guess I should investigate these things a bit closer before I go spouting off like a font of infinite wisdom
I tried the sim thing out, against Ribald who always casts true sight and although the message 'illusion dispelled' came up, the simulacrum remained.
