Fighter/Mage question...

Disco Stew · Post by **Disco Stew** » Tue May 08, 2001 9:16 am

Why does everyone love kensai mages? They can't even wear bracers! With their pitiful ac wouldn't you be better off with a straight fighter?

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Tue May 08, 2001 9:22 am

Simply because one weakness is the the other one strenght.
A 18 DEX does not need bracers.
Now Kensai cannot use armor but it can use a robe...now a kansai can deal a lot of damaged, a mage cannot...A kesai mage can get to the high level as a mage, 17 level.
The only bad thing is the elven chain, since it cannot use it.

Manveru · Post by **Manveru** » Tue May 08, 2001 9:24 am

Yes yes.....you should really check your manual once again...

Kensai/mage dualclass is very useful - they have Hp for fighter and may cast high level mage spells as a mage. Their ac is not so bad when you use Robe of Vecna.

Mage with sequencers/spell triggers/contingency/simlarecum eats your fighter for breakfast.

[ 05-08-2001: Message edited by: Manveru ]

Disco Stew · Post by **Disco Stew** » Tue May 08, 2001 12:40 pm

i MEANT A STRAIGHT FIGHTER DUAL CLASSED TO MAGE.(damn caps lock!)

Anyway the robe of vecna is in collectors' addition only

Ok, so the kensai mage is a good character type then?

Disco Stew · Post by **Disco Stew** » Tue May 08, 2001 12:42 pm

Sorry for the double post but...

Yes you DO need bracers! Dex 18 is NOT enough. Trust me, I was a walking target for missle weapons last time I tried to play kensai...

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Tue May 08, 2001 12:43 pm

Oh yes, way overpower.
Also you can find the bonus merchants right here, in Gamebhansee BG II download area.
EDIT.
Sorry but you can use boots, use boots of avoidance it´s +5 against missile weapons.
There is also the shield spell.

[ 05-08-2001: Message edited by: Drakron Du´Dark ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue May 08, 2001 2:45 pm

"Yes you DO need bracers! Dex 18 is NOT enough. Trust me, I was a walking target for missle weapons last time I tried to play kensai..."

I've played a kensai/mage in two run-throughs, and never had any problem with missile attacks. You simply adapt your party to fit its strengths. So if you want to use your kensai/mage as a mage and fear incoming missiles, keep him at the back, and have him cast the appropriate protection spell, then move him forward to cast everything else.

Kensai/mages can't use bracers, but then, how many fighters do you know that can use wands? If it's defensive capabilities you want, the kensai/mage has many spells that boost this; if you want offensive power, you have the awe-inspiring combination of kensai abilities with Tensor's Transformation. And let's not forget Projected Image or Simulacrum when you reach higher levels. The limitations of a kensai/mage are part of the strategic fun in handling such a powerful but tricky character.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue May 08, 2001 3:55 pm

A straight fighter dualed to mage can wear bracers of defense ac 3. A kensai/mage wearing robe of vecna will have the same AC. A fighter can instead wear gauntlets of weapon expertise but then again the kensai bonuses are better. You could think of the kensai mage as being a fighter mage wearing both bracers of defense and gauntlets of weapon expertise. However I believe berserker dualed to mage is better if you intend to solo atleast.

Yacobod · Post by **Yacobod** » Tue May 08, 2001 9:28 pm

kensai mage works so well because they have the same armor restrictions

i went thru the game solo with a 12/15 kensai mage, and with all the protective spells at your disposal their AC is not a problem. -10 AC is very possible.

The key with this character is to be prepared for battle, cast the right protections followed with Tensors Transformation, and you've got a buzz-saw on your hands that will destroy everything in its path.

taking out the 4 demons and the slayer was so much easier with this character, then with my first run thru with the game with a full party

moriveth · Post by **moriveth** » Wed May 09, 2001 2:52 am

Robe of Vecna is what, AC 5? The best bracers are what, AC 3?

Anyway, AC is pretty irrelevant for a F/M, at least in my experience. I really can't remember any time when I took heavy melee damage with a kensai/mage, even soloing. There's this great spell called Stoneskin--you might have heard of it. And for heavy combat (e.g. Irenicus + 4 demons) you're going to want to use Prot Magic Weapons or a Mantle spell anyway, regardless of how godly your AC is. If you are ever in a position to worry seriously about AC, you probably screwed up somewhere.

That said, there's a case to be made for a Berserker/Mage or even a vanilla Fighter/Mage as opposed to a Kensai/Mage, especially if soloing. (If the original poster was instead claiming that an ordinary fighter is better than a kensai/mage, well, take one for a spin sometime...)

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed May 09, 2001 4:12 am

As for the AC, do not forget the excellent 4th level spell Spirit Armor. Very good for the tougher fights, combined with the usual Stoneskin, Mirror Image and so on, and lasts for ages...

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Wed May 09, 2001 4:52 am

@moriveth: correct but do not forget kensai's AC +2 bonus. That bonus has no fighter or mage. Therefore:
1. A mage, or fighter/mage can wear bracers AC 3. The bracers are the best armor for him in BG2.
2. A kensai/mage can wear the Robe of Good Archmagi or the Robe of Vecna. This gives him AC 5 plus his AC +2 bonus = AC 3.
The kensai/mage does not lose anything as far as the armor class is considered.
Another issue is a helm or gloves. A kensai/mage cannot wear gloves - a disadvantage which is far more than compensated by his abilities. He cannot wear helms but he can wear Ioun Stones, especially the green one - again, no considerable disadvantage.
We can summarize: every mage should be a kensai/mage unless there are serious objections against it (party composition, especially small parties where the mage has to accept a priest or thief role as well).

Disco Stew · Post by **Disco Stew** » Wed May 09, 2001 7:32 am

It DOESN'T matter that kensai and mage share the same disadvantages! Fighter has no disadvantages besides no spell casting.

Oh yeah, I'm not a ****head and I do know what stoneskin is. I went through the beginning of the game with a normal kensai so I couldn't use protection spells.

Lowest ac for a kensai mage is -3. Robe of the Apprenti(ac3), dex bonus(-4 if you have 18 dex), and natural -2 bonus.

In my humble opinion any fighter kit/normal fighter and mage is a good combo(besides wizard slayer). What's the best time to dual? I figure its pointless to dual at 12 cuz you might as well multiclass...

Something · Post by **Something** » Wed May 09, 2001 8:23 am

Missile weapons shouldn't be a problem. Buy the inertia(sp) belt from trademeet. They have a real problem shooting you when your beating on them. And if your dealing with fighter types and cannot get your k/m to them, drop a cloudkill on them. With stoneskin/spirit armor you really never should have a problem where your going to get killed(unless held/charmed etc).

As for getting a low AC

-4 for dex
-2 for kensia(9th lvl)
-5 for robe(vec/magi)
-2 for gaxx(I found that soloing this ring is much better then having acruity)
-1 for cloak of sewers(you change between this and the beholder killing cloak)
-1 for the katana(cannot remember the name and too lazy to get it. Its in the bonus merchants)or you can take the staff of magi and get a -2.
-1 for Ioun stone (granted you might take the extra hp/thaco)

That puts you at a -6, you can take a ring of prot 2, but I prefer the ring of wizardry.
Combine the -4 from spirit armor and AC should never be a problem. Sure you won't get the crazy -14+ in the underdark when you could be wearing the drow chain+5, but you never really run into a problem with hps. The only problems I have had so far was when I would get lazy and be running around with only 3 spells and have to fight a decent sized group.

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Wed May 09, 2001 9:07 am

Dual at level 9, that way you get the max HP as a fighter and get to level 17 as a mage.

Anatres · Post by **Anatres** » Wed May 09, 2001 10:04 am

@Disco; IMHO the Kensai/Mage is THE character class. With the Robe of Vecna, Ring of Air Control, Cloak of the Sewers, Dak'ron Zerth blade, and either the Boots of Avoidance (+5 AC against missles) - or the Boots of Etherealness (Immunity to all weapons for 30 seconds), and Spirit Armor I've got a massive fighter with tons of offensive spells that has a -8 Armor Class and Kai!

PS: You can download the Collector's Edition merchants from this site.....

[ 05-09-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ]

PaulDenton · Post by **PaulDenton** » Wed May 09, 2001 11:15 am

Ah, I played a pure Kensai in a normal game. His THACO is -10 at level 12, and AC is -8 with Spirit Armor. With the Warblade in his hands, everything falls like flies with critical hits around 60.

moriveth · Post by **moriveth** » Wed May 09, 2001 11:54 am

I like the Kensai/Mage, but when soloing you're kept from using some great items a Berserker/Mage can use, shields and helmets in particular. Not for the AC, but for the added effects of items like the Shield of Harmony, Shield of the Balduran, and Vhailor's Helm. The loss of missile weapons is IMHO minor, but some would disagree.

Disco Stew · Post by **Disco Stew** » Wed May 09, 2001 12:48 pm

Thanks for your advise.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed May 09, 2001 3:50 pm

Originally posted by Anatres:
<STRONG>@Disco; IMHO the Kensai/Mage is THE character class. With the Robe of Vecna, Ring of Air Control, Cloak of the Sewers, Dak'ron Zerth blade, and either the Boots of Avoidance (+5 AC against missles) - or the Boots of Etherealness (Immunity to all weapons for 30 seconds), and Spirit Armor I've got a massive fighter with tons of offensive spells that has a -8 Armor Class and Kai!

PS: You can download the Collector's Edition merchants from this site.....

[ 05-09-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ]</STRONG>

Where do you find those boots? I thought you became immune to normal weapons, do you really become immune to all weapons??