Kill the keldorn challenge.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu May 23, 2002 10:17 pm

@Littiz-The cloak of Mirroring doesn't block area damage spells, IIRC. Abi-Dhalzims, anyone?

And I think we should remove the 2nd Ring of Gaxx as it is, and replace it with another (maybe Ring of Earth Control for the +1 AC bonus). 2 Rings of Gaxx is just too cheesy.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri May 24, 2002 12:57 am

IIRC, the ToB version of the cloak of mirroring will absorb area effect damaging spells...I changed mine back to the SoA version (silver disc at your feet) and I'm not sure how it works with all area effect spells but it does reflect damage back from some of them, such as skull trap.

@ Littiz;

And I discovered a trick to cast EVERY "attack" spell WITHOUT BREAKING INVISIBILTY!!!!

This sounds very interesting...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri May 24, 2002 4:01 am

I don't know, I do not use that cloak. Too cheesy, no fun.

If area spells punch through, then we can win with a NAKED mage!!

About the trick: posted in SoA forum......

Ode to a Grasshopper · Fri May 24, 2002 4:40 am

I alwasy use the SoA version too, it's just too funny when an enemy mage casts an offensive spell directly at you to pass up. Does anyone know if there's a patch that removes that annoying silver circle graphic from the feet of the person wearing the cloak?

If not, could someone make one? Please?

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri May 24, 2002 4:50 am

@ Ode;
To get the old Cloak of Mirroring back, simply remove CLCK26.itm from your override directory.

This is a Sojourner special

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Fri May 24, 2002 8:42 am

Each has his own advantages

The Mage and Keldorn both have their advantages. Imagine having to fight 10 mages (high level ones) in a row, one after another. Keldorn can definitely do it faster, and more safely too.

However when you pit the Mage against Keldorn... the superior AI of a human being

P) using a mage can beat Keldorn upside down... with spells like Time Stop Dragon's Breath Improved Alacrity... But tell your mage to fight two or three Keldorns without resting...

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri May 24, 2002 9:28 am

@ Ode;

Sorry, I misread your earlier post...yes there is a patch to turn off the spell trap animation for the claok of mirroring, but I don't know if it will switch off the silver disc version. I'll try it out...

EDIT; nope, it doesn't work on the silver disc, all it seems to do is switch off the big swirly ball animation altogether (including spell trap and presumbly spell immunity etc.) Sorry!

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri May 24, 2002 2:56 pm

Let's decide what we have to face then.
Glod???

Further, I'd love some help in beating the guy!

@Gloop: there's always Wish to collect some rests

Sabre · Post by **Sabre** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:43 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
I alwasy use the SoA version too, it's just too funny when an enemy mage casts an offensive spell directly at you to pass up. Does anyone know if there's a patch that removes that annoying silver circle graphic from the feet of the person wearing the cloak?

If not, could someone make one? Please?

Here are two files that are in my Cloak of Mirroring fix, they will disable a certain animation - that means that it also disables it for every other spells that uses that animation as well. The credit goes to Malbeth for this fix.

spturni2.bam - disable the silver circle animation
spmagglo.bam - disable the spell trap animation - big ball around character

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat May 25, 2002 1:16 am

Thanks @Sabre, and thanks @Malbeth too.

That circle has always annoyed me, but the cloak is just too much fun against enemy mages.

Glod · Post by **Glod** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:21 am

@Gloop: the point of this challenge is to not assume keldorn is an idiot AI and use the lowest level spells possible to achieve victory. If we assumed keldorn was game AI level then we cast a couple mord swords and watch him die.

According to my initial rules, if you don't want him to have the cloak you just have to give up the SotM =)

2nd ring of gaxx is certainly cheese so if thats holding you back feel free to assume he has a different ring. Hopefully any strat in this case will succeed no matter what choice is made for the second ring.

We haven't really gotten an answer on lowest needed level for dual/multi. Its pretty trivial at 18 due to timestop, but how much lower can we go?

As for a mage < 18 not having enough level 7 spell slots to handle Keldorn+ cloak, I'm not sure I agree. At level 17 even a non-specialist gets 3 level 7 spells, add one for ring of wizardry makes 4. A specialist has that many at 1 level lower. Mem 1 project image and 3 swords .... makes 6 swords which seems like it should be plenty to trap him (how many are actually required to trap someone ?). We'd still work on this to make sure we can really execute the plan, but the it doesn't look impossible a priori.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sat May 25, 2002 2:53 am

Would Keldorn be able to withstand an onslaught of up to 6 Mord's swords? His AC is pretty low and might he able just to stand there, drinking healing potions till they un-summon? This was my tactic with the improved twisted rune as I had no way to kill them as everyone else was dead...

The CoM does protect against some area spells like fireball and presumably sunfire...the only difference as far as I can tell between ToB version and the SoA version is the reflection thing. Could add a new element of paranoia if the Sabre version was being used with no animation...

Schwoebli · Post by **Schwoebli** » Sat May 25, 2002 3:59 am

keldorn the summoner

what if keldorn summons a deva and cast improved haste over him (ring of gaxx) near the mage? how fast can he summon a deva?

btw can keldorn use the cleric spell which makes him invisible (first level spell i think) and just summons devas one after an other?

keldorn could also use a crossbow to interrupt the mages spell casting. maybe some accid bolts.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat May 25, 2002 6:06 am

Keldorn may not cast clerical spells, being an Inquisitor.
The Imp. Haste from ring of Gaxx lasts no more than 1 round,
and it can be cast only on himself IIRC.
And I think a mage can cast deathspell to unsummon the Deva.
Anyway with the Deva I'd consider things no more fair.
The challenge was against that "particular" Keldorn, who appears
to have focalized on other abilities.

Anyway.
@Glod:
As I said, we have to know what we are against.
If he uses the Cloak, I'd want the Staff, using it to become
invisible at will...
The cloak is just TOO powerful.

If he's taken WITHOUT the cloak, not only we could kill him
without the Staff, we could do ENTIRELY without items.
Not even the Robe.

About the swords, of course a Project Image would be enough,
the problem is the time, as maze lasts 3-12 rounds.
In the worst case, we have to retreat. 3 swords won't block him.
In the average case, he's dead. 5 swords are enough.
He has not a really great AC, and we can haste them up to five or six
times..
If he stops to dispel haste once, he can't quaff a potion.
I killed Balor with just TWO swords. No problem.
I'm quite sure 5 Swords would win.

About the dual.
The dual has no need of 9th level spells.
Melee is enough, aided with FAST spells or triggers.
I've played a lot with a Kensai/Mage, many here knows how much
I posted about that.....
I assure you, there would be really no problem.
No need for specific preparations, I'd use the normal spell
configuration.
It would be handy to be level 16 as a mage, so that you already
have spell trigger (Imp. Haste, Mislead, Tenser, if he stops
to dispel those you HEAL anyway....) but we can do without it.

A Kensai/Mage level 12/14 is MORE than enough.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat May 25, 2002 6:26 am

For the record. Devas and Planetars are uneffected by Death Spell. Isn't there a helmet that lets you cast death spell?

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sat May 25, 2002 7:37 am

Plus Keldorn can summon several devas...he has the option to pick this HLA every time he leveled up. Loffelur's Keldorn is level 32. Oh Loffelur, you don't know what you're missing or what you started.

@ Bruce; yes, its called the skull of death and you get it from bushwacking the mage in the UD. As he's evil (IIRC), its not inconceivable that Keldorn would have this... I know its not in Loff's inventory but still, as Littiz says, some sort of definate list of equipment should be decided upon.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat May 25, 2002 9:50 am

Originally posted by kopywrite
Plus Keldorn can summon several devas...he has the option to pick this HLA every time he leveled up. Loffelur's Keldorn is level 32. Oh Loffelur, you don't know what you're missing or what you started.

@ Bruce; yes, its called the skull of death and you get it from bushwacking the mage in the UD. As he's evil (IIRC), its not inconceivable that Keldorn would have this... I know its not in Loff's inventory but still, as Littiz says, some sort of definate list of equipment should be decided upon.

Of course, even if he did he'd hardly be likely to show up and cop all this Kill-A-Keldorn business that's been going on lately.

Bit of an unfortunate first post to make, really.

@Sabre-I thought that Cloak fix on your site was only for the ToB cloak, otherwise I would have downloaded it from there. Thanks again, my Lorelei is now even better than before without that ridiculous circle at her feet.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat May 25, 2002 10:21 am

Actually unless you summon from a simulacrum you cannot summon more than one Deva or Planetar at a time methinks.
Yeah I feel sorry for Loffleur... not the kind of welcome he was hoping for... Anyway if he is out there I just wanted to say that in my book Keldorn is one of the better NPC's...whatever that is worth.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sat May 25, 2002 12:18 pm

Yeah I was aware of the one deva/planetar at a time rule as I said in earlier posts...but they might have been in the other thread that's been talking about this...that's what I mean about Loffelur, he's really made an entrance with two long threads inspired by him/her...probably never see him/her again.

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Sat May 25, 2002 1:09 pm

May I ask why Keldorn's saving throw vs death is -5 while he's level 32? With all the equipment mentioned in the original post Keldorn's sav.throw goes no more than -3

It might be a silly question but nevertheless...

Cheers