Bodhi

DJANGO · Post by **DJANGO** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 3:41 am

What will happen if I choose Bodhi side?

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 3:49 am

You will do the thieves guilds quest, although from the opposite side, you will kill the thieves at the docks to get the cargo and so on, and later you will kill the thieves guilds leader.

I suppose this is the "evil" path

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 6:34 am

"Be not tempted by evil, my child."

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Assassin of the Shadow Guild

"I am become death, destroyer of worlds..."

"Contrary to popular belief, a barrel full of monkeys is not half as much fun as previously advertised, and is in fact quite horrifying."

[This message has been edited by Kayless (edited 04-02-2001).]

-=- Nerun -=- · Post by **-=- Nerun -=-** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 7:57 am

any big disadvantages ?

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 10:09 am

None, unless you have Keldorn as he leaves. Bohdi is the better route to follow.

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Quitch, being the Ranger known as Skyhawk, is a proud member of The Brotherhood of the Woods

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 2:58 pm

Actually i recomend following the shadow thieves because you get more xp for killing and staking the vampires. Otherwise you get the same xp.

Mielikki · Post by **Mielikki** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 3:03 pm

let minsc and boo tear and rip vampires(racial enemy +4)
wear the amulet given to u by Shadow Thief Master or cast negative plane projection(very short duration, beware) and i m telling u its more phun when u stick those wooden stakes in their coffins and see the vampire die and hear their scream.
=]

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~Goddess Of Forests and all Rangers~

cheesemage · Post by **cheesemage** » Mon Apr 02, 2001 4:03 pm

do you end up having to pay her the 15,000 gold?

Mielikki · Post by **Mielikki** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 7:59 am

if u did not choose sides and u have 15000 in ur pocket, and u go to the graveyard she ll TAKE the money and assume u chose her.

so if ur not sure about taking ur side, either dont have that much money on u, or dont visit graveyard.
once u want to choose sides, go to graveyard with 15000 or to the thief-contacts house to choose ur side.

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~Goddess Of Forests and all Rangers~

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 4:58 pm

I prefer to side with Bodhi, even when I'm playing a good party. Although I can't keep Mazzy or Keldorn in my party if I do, the other Good NPC's go along with it. I'd prefer not to side with either guild, but the game gives me no choice, since I have to pick one side or the other. If I had my choice, I'd destroy both of their guilds. Well guess what, if I side with Bodhi, I get to do just that. The Shadow Thieves go down in Chapter Three, and Bodhi is destroyed in Chapter Six. I like it that way.

No one can convince me that siding with the Shadow Thieves is a "good" path. I've seen Bioware's lame excuses, and they don't hold up. According to them, the Shadow Thieves aren't evil because Aran Linvail is True Neutral. Well, I don't care what his alignment is supposed to be; I can see they're evil for myself. The Shadow Thieves torture, assassinate, blackmail, smuggle slaves, and steal from innocent people. People can't walk the streets of Athkatla because they fear for their own safety. Is that supposed to be "Neutral"? Not in my book. And they're not your "friends". They don't lift a finger to help you, even if your cause is just, unless you cover yourself in blood. "We won't help you unless steal an artifact from a Temple, kill a Cowled Wizard, kill a man who might have overheard something Mae'Var said, slaughter Mae'Var's entire guild, murder two Shadow Thieves who are defecting to the other guild, and wipe out our rival guild, so that we can continue to torture, assassinate, blackmail, smuggle slaves, and steal from innocent people in peace." They're just trying to make a living, so it's okay, right? Yeah, that's "good", alright.

You know what siding with Bodhi entails? (Stop reading here if you don't want to be spoiled.) She allows you to destroy the largest criminal organization in Amn, the same people who've been leading you on and spying on you and jerking you around and wasting your precious time instead of helping you find Imoen. She asks you to steal a shipment from the thieves, rescue a prisoner, and kill Aran Linvail (and rescue another prisoner from being tortured while you're at it). These missions pretty much entail killing every Shadow Thief you meet, but if you ask me, they have it coming. Is that really so bad? When Edwin asks you to kill Rayic, Keldorn says it's okay, because "to believe that any Cowled Wizard is truly innocent would be laughably naive." The same thing applies to any Shadow Thief. Even Minsc gets excited when he learns that you can kill the thieves. "We will go into the midst of the den of thieves and flip them about like pancakes. All that is glory shall be ours! And then breakast."

[This message has been edited by VonDondu (edited 04-03-2001).]

Sparrowhawk · Post by **Sparrowhawk** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 6:35 pm

Just felt like I had to respond to VonDondu's eloquent, if misguided, post.
Spoilers follow
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The problem with your reasoning, V., is that most of the "evil" quests you quote have nothing to do with Aran Linvail. It is MaeVar who is torturing someone, and asks you to steal an artifact from an EVIL God's temple. It is Edwin who asks you to kill the Cowled Wizard, and it is again MaeVar who asks you to kill the thief who may have heard his plot to overthrow Linvail, oh,and by the way, you don't even have to kill him to complete the mission. And it is Renal Bloodscalp who asks you to get involved with MaeVar in the first place, eventually asking that you wipe out MaeVar's decidedly evil faction.

Also, there is no evidence that Linvail's thieves are involved in the slave trade, you can put an end to the slaver's foul work without ever speaking to a shadow thief.

Linvail asks you to play bodyguard for one of his spies, asks you to spy on some potential defectors who attack you when they figure out what you're up to, hardly making the plan an assassination plot, helps you find Bodhi's lair and get into it, finds out where Imoen is, and arranges to get you there as well, all the while giving you more trust and respect than you, a child of the God of Murder, have any right to expect. As far as the money they demand, Linvail explains why it was needed, and gives you one of the most potent magical artifacts in the game in return.

Bodhi, meanwhile, is EVIL incarnate, a Vampire who coerces or kills any shadow thief that won't join her "guild." She's in league with Irenicus, plotting to steal you and you sister's souls so they can become immortal and Irenicus can destroy his former kin.

One could argue, I guess, about the ethics of thieves, but to claim that ANY thieves' guild is inherently evil is to reject a basic concept of the AD&D universe. And to make any claim that the supposed evil of a thieves' guild is on par with the obvious evil of a den of vampires just strikes me as naive or self-serving.

and that's the other way to look at it,

mh

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Only in silence the word,
only in dark the light,
only in dying, life:
bright the hawk’s flight
on the empty sky."

cheesemage · Post by **cheesemage** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 7:39 pm

well i really didnt need the whole ethics thing but thanks, 15,000 to the shadow theives it is