Gateway or Dell?

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri May 24, 2002 8:01 pm

Thanks, Mr Sleep. I figured it would be a collossal amount of money and only worth it for businesses or people with really, really vital data.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Fri May 24, 2002 8:53 pm

defrag in a nutshell

@Gwally

RE: defragging

When a program or data is installed/copied to your hard disk, the process is to find a contiguous block of space on the disk large enough to facilitate whatever is written to it. Over time, as various programs and data are used they become scattered. The OS will grab what it needs and place it into memory. Once the memory is full and the OS is calling more files to be put into memory, it removes unneeded files from memory and dumps them to the disk making space for the new files. Again the OS looks for contiguous space on the hard disk but not particularly the original space in which the files were placed. Over time, all this file swapping, which happens with regularity, will scatter the data causing slower reads and eventually writes to the disk.

The defrag process assists in moving related files rearranges them so they are in close proximity with one another. This will improve disk read/writes and will place less burden on the hard drive so it is not having to travel all over the disk to retrieve needed files.

Comprende'?

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Sat May 25, 2002 8:15 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

Damn you Flibble you beat me to it again!!!!

Quick and the dead. Or great minds think alike. Either works for me.

Another option for those who are brave enough is use NTFS on Windows 2000 or XP. That filing system allows the OS to select disk areas to write data to for the best performance and also reserves disk space for critical system files. It also improves performance on disks over 32GB and adds all the extra security capabilities of both OS's.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun May 26, 2002 1:45 pm

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
Quick and the dead. Or great minds think alike. Either works for me.

I prefer the latter

@Ned, very comprehensive but that wasn't exactly a simple answer was it

@HLD, i am sure one could probably get the price down to 500 or something like that with the right company, but it still strikes me as rather a lot.

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Tue May 28, 2002 3:36 am

@Gwally: Congratulations on the new addition to your family. I hope it doesn't keep you awake too late at night.

Very nice machine...

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Tue May 28, 2002 4:22 pm

Ok, this is what I am currently thinking of getting. Comments are welcome:

AMD Athlon XP Processor 2000+
MSI K7N415-Pro nVidia nForce 415D TwinBank 128-Bit DDR
nVidia GeForce 4Ti 4400 128MB DDR
512 MB PC2100 DDR 266MHz Memory
80GB Maxtor Ultra DMA 100 7200 rpm Hard Drive (cannot get Western Digital SE)
Toshiba 16X DVD-ROM
Liteon 32X10X40 CD-RW (cannot get Plextor)
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy w/SB1394 Sound Card
nForce 10/100 Ethernet NIC
NEC Multisync FE950+ 19" Super Flat Screen Monitor
3-Year Limited Warranty

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Tue May 28, 2002 4:27 pm

@thantor3, not bad! What are you upgrading from?

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue May 28, 2002 4:30 pm

Instead of the GeForce4, save some bux and get a GeForce3 -- equal performance for less money.

Get a DVD writer. Useful for lots of data, imaging OS partitions, etc. etc. etc. It's pretty fun and cool technology at a reasonable price.

Oh, btw, nice system. I gotta stay outta this forum or I'll windup breaking my new years resolution on upgrading PC's.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue May 28, 2002 5:11 pm

Originally posted by thantor3
Ok, this is what I am currently thinking of getting. Comments are welcome:

AMD Athlon XP Processor 2000+
MSI K7N415-Pro nVidia nForce 415D TwinBank 128-Bit DDR
nVidia GeForce 4Ti 4400 128MB DDR
512 MB PC2100 DDR 266MHz Memory
80GB Maxtor Ultra DMA 100 7200 rpm Hard Drive (cannot get Western Digital SE)
Toshiba 16X DVD-ROM
Liteon 32X10X40 CD-RW (cannot get Plextor)
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy w/SB1394 Sound Card
nForce 10/100 Ethernet NIC
NEC Multisync FE950+ 19" Super Flat Screen Monitor
3-Year Limited Warranty

Is this system from someone like Dell or one you are constructing yourself, i believe you said that you hadn't the time to DIY. If it one you are building yourself then i have lots of advice, if not then i say that is a pretty good machine, although i personally wouldn't go with an integrated motherboard solution, i find them more trouble than they are worth.

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Tue May 28, 2002 7:45 pm

@ Mr. Flibble: I am upgrading from:

Asus K7M mobo
Athalon 655 MHz CPU
128 MB RAM
20 GB hardrive
Asus 6800 Deluxe GeForce 32MB video card
Sound Blaster Live
56k modem
Hiatchi GD 5000 DVD ROM
Creative 52X CD ROM
Yucky Midtower beige case

@Ned: They only have the GeForce 2 and 4 series. As to the DVD writer, I am a bit leary of all the different standards. Do you have any recommendations? And are DVD writers a better deal in terms of cost when compared to CD writers?

@Sleepy: I leaning toward ViciousPC, since Alienware and Falcon NW are so expensive. I have contacted a local shop, but they have not gotten back to me and kind of balked at the idea of putting together "one of those gaming computers". *sigh* There is an outfit in Seattle that could do it, though. Can you tell me what you mean by an integrated motherboard solution and why you don't like them?

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Tue May 28, 2002 8:03 pm

I think you'll notice just a bit of a speed difference!

Integrated motherboards are m/b's that have sound, video and network (and occasiionally other parts) built onto the board. In this case the nForce 415D has onboard network and sound, although from what I've seen and read in reviews the sound on the 415D is rahter good. The downside is it can be a pain to use addon sound and video cards as you may not be able to shut down the onboard ones.

Yucky Midtower beige case

I seriously want a cow pattern case.

thantor3 · Post by **thantor3** » Wed May 29, 2002 1:30 am

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
I seriously want a cow pattern case.

ROFL!! With the neon cow pasture interior?

btw, have you heard of Artec DVD and CD-RW drives? They have been suggested but I don't know how they compare to, say, Sony, Plextor, Liteon, or Toshiba....

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Wed May 29, 2002 1:55 am

Originally posted by thantor3
have you heard of Artec DVD and CD-RW drives? They have been suggested but I don't know how they compare to, say, Sony, Plextor, Liteon, or Toshiba....

I know the name, but haven't dealt with any. Most of my experiences with DVD and CD-RW drives has been with Asus, Creative and Fujitsu. The specs from their website look OK though.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed May 29, 2002 5:59 am

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
Integrated motherboards are m/b's that have sound, video and network (and occasiionally other parts) built onto the board. In this case the nForce 415D has onboard network and sound, although from what I've seen and read in reviews the sound on the 415D is rahter good. The downside is it can be a pain to use addon sound and video cards as you may not be able to shut down the onboard ones.

They may have perfected the technology, but i always found it lacking in the past, if you want good 3D sound then the AC97 and stuff like that they bolt onto mobo's just aren't good enough. I had on-board sound on my last mobo, however i just had to turn it off in BIOS, but it still caused a few problems later, i have sorted those however

I seriously want a cow pattern case.

Doesn't everyone, although i am tempted by the Leopard Skin designs

@Than, the Plextors are supposed to be good

BTW Mr Flibble may i ask you what grpconv.exe does (it might be gprconv.exe) I will explain later if necessary

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Wed May 29, 2002 6:41 am

@thantor3:
My opposition to onboard motherboard components isn't just about compatibility (which as our friend Mr Sleep points out is common), but also about replacement. We have some Dells in the office with integrated network cards. After a lightning storm a couple of months ago, we lost two boards because while the computers are on UPS units, the network cables were not hooked up to surge protectors; the people who own our building assured me that there were surge protectors on all of the routers in the building (and they were lying).

Anyway, instead of just replacing a network card, I had to wait for new boards from Dell. It's the same case with sound and video; to me, extra stuff on the motherboard is extra stuff to break and extra downtime because you can't replace individual components.

With regard to the Artec drives, you might check to see who really makes them. I bought a Delta DVD-ROM from Circuit City last year and it turns out that someone else (Samsung, I think), actually made the drive and then rebadged it as a bargain brand and sells it through a retailer for a lower price than a name brand. It's the same piece of equipment, but a different badge on the box.

This kind of thing is pretty common in a lot of areas; if you buy for instance a cordless drill, it's probably got the same insides regardless of whether the brand on the outside is DeWalt, Craftsman or Black & Decker. It's the same with a lot of computer components; manufacturing facilities are expensive and so some manufacturers find it cheaper to sell re-branded equipment rather than make their own.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed May 29, 2002 6:58 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
Anyway, instead of just replacing a network card, I had to wait for new boards from Dell. It's the same case with sound and video; to me, extra stuff on the motherboard is extra stuff to break and extra downtime because you can't replace individual components.

That is a good point, and we had to do the very same thing for some of our clients. The strange thing we had was the delivery guy who turned up at the office at 5:30 demanded that he must have a network card to replace it, even though it was clearly an onboard network just like nearly all dells, we even offered him a 10/100 we had lying around the office, but he wouldn't take that, so we had to wait another day until he talked to head office

I recall that BTC used to make Creative CD-Roms

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Wed May 29, 2002 2:21 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave

With regard to the Artec drives, you might check to see who really makes them. I bought a Delta DVD-ROM from Circuit City last year and it turns out that someone else (Samsung, I think), actually made the drive and then rebadged it as a bargain brand and sells it through a retailer for a lower price than a name brand. It's the same piece of equipment, but a different badge on the box.

You'd be amazed at just how much this happens in the computer world. For example: there's only 3 or 4 hard drive manufacturers in the world, but 10+ brands of disks available on the market.

IBM, HP, Dell and Compaq all do this. If you have a look at the motherboard on a lot of these systems, they're usually relabeled Asus boards. Same goes for CD drives. Most of them are Matsush!ta or Sony drives with a different label on the front.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed May 29, 2002 2:50 pm

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
IBM, HP, Dell and Compaq all do this. If you have a look at the motherboard on a lot of these systems, they're usually relabeled Asus boards. Same goes for CD drives. Most of them are Matsush!ta or Sony drives with a different label on the front.

Yet how come Sony make really reliable CD-ROMs and everyone elses are poor?

Quark · Post by **Quark** » Wed May 29, 2002 3:47 pm

Nah, best CD-ROM and CD-R/RW drives I've seen come from Plextor.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Wed May 29, 2002 3:57 pm

Originally posted by Quark
Nah, best CD-ROM and CD-R/RW drives I've seen come from Plextor.

I agree. Yamaha also do good CD-RW drives.