Originally posted by Drakron Du´Dark:
Mages have a wider choise of spells, and invisibilety is useless to a true sight spell, also time stop could be use by both sides, if your sorceror did not have that spell, the mage only need to cast time stop, true sight, greater malediction, figer of death.
A magic resistence fighter could also defect him, even that "invible" thing does not work all times, a improved hasted character could hit the sorceror and sorcerors dont have a lot of HP.
This is getting tedious...
Mages may have a wider spellbook, but, and I'll repeat myself... THE ONLY GOOD SPELLS ARE THE SPELLS YOU CAN CAST RIGHT NOW. Sorry for the caps, but that is the main point of the sorcerer vs mages. And too many peoples seems to forget that.
First, we're not talking about duels with xp cap remover. So forget about Time Stop. And even with xp cap remover, maybe my Guide doesn't says so, but I prefer Time Stop over Wail of the Banshee (coupled with Chain Continguency and Gate). So I too have Time Stop, like the mage.
The following explanation is also valid for level 9 spells, but since we don't use xps cap, I will only talk about level 8 spells.
Again, I think I shouldn't be explaining all this, and just tell you to play a sorceror and then come back later, but I feel you need to know why exactly...
At level 17 (max for sorcerors and pure mages) :
- sorcerors can cast 4 spells and know 2 spells
- pure mages can cast 2 spells and know all 13 if they are lucky enough to find all the scrolls
That in itself is almost enough... But I'll explain more.
You see, the pure mage can only cast 2 spells. For versatility's sake, he'll certainly memorize 2 different spells, and most likely the 2 best spells at that level (which are Abi Dalzim's Horrid Whilting and Spell Trigger or Simulacrum).
The pure mage can only cast each of these 2 spells once.
Let's say the sorceror has gone through the same reasonning and has chosen the same 2 spells. He can cast 4 spells at that level, in any combination :
- 4 Horrid Whilting
- 4 Simulacrum/Spell Trigger
- 2 Horrid Whilting and 2 Simulacrum/Spell Trigger
- 3 Horrid Whilting and 1 Simulacrum/Spell Trigger
- 1 Horrid Whilting and 3 Simulacrum/Spell Trigger
What is so cool about this is that the sorceror doesn't have to choose which combination he prefers... until he needs the spell.
If that is not enough, then count the spells per day :
- pure mages can cast a total of 33 spells per day
- sorcerors can cast a total of 46 spells per day (40% more)
And to continue on with the first reasonning, just compare the number of spells casted per day by the pure mage, with the number of spells know per level of the sorceror and the number of spells per level the sorceror can cast.
- Level 1 : mage casts 5 spells, sorceror knows 5 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 2 : mage casts 5 spells, sorceror knows 5 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 3 : mage casts 5 spells, sorceror knows 4 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 4 : mage casts 5 spells, sorceror knows 4 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 5 : mage casts 5 spells, sorceror knows 4 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 6 : mage casts 3 spells, sorceror knows 3 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 7 : mage casts 3 spells, sorceror knows 3 and casts 6 (any combination)
- Level 8 : mage casts 2 spells, sorceror knows 2 and casts 4 (any combination)
I hope that is clear enough why the pure mage is inferior to the sorceror. The first rounds are very crucials to both spellcasters as they can cast as fast about the same spells (not same number of spells, but the same spells). But after the pure mage will have cast his most useful spells, then he'll be totally screwed as the sorceror can go on, and on, and on, and on, with those spells that are so good.
As for your fighter reasonning, you should know better. The best magic resistant fighter (save the paladins) has about 30 to 40% MR (ring of Gaax, amulet of 10% and other item). At level 17, my Lower resistance spell can bring that down by 27%. At 13% magic resistance, about 9 spells out of 10 will hit. I don't think you are relying on that failed 10th spell to win.
And yes, invisibility at will from the Staff of the Magi works all the time (except against True Sight, which will just make the fight harder, but while the opponent is casting True Sight, the sorceror is on the offensive, and probably disrupting the spell casting at the same time).
And low hit points is not a problem for a sorceror that can cast 7 stoneskins of 8 skins each, plus any contiguency (make that 8, for 64 skins, or 64 hits that does nothing to the sorceror).
People should really know the sorceror better before arguing.
This could really end the discussion.
So then, Pat, a few things: