Hacking VS Spells

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:55 am

Fighters VS Mages? The eternal question....

I'd say I prefer using mages, but ... (unfortunately) a fighter is tons more effective. I have come to this startling revelation when my fighter-heavy party (5 fighters) simply bludgeoned all opposition into oblivion...

I prefer using mages because of the sheer tonnage of cheese available through their incantations... I've had several unforgettable battles which culminated in my hitting the pause button and bursting into hilarity (in real life), due to the transgressions of a spell-based offensive...

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 4:57 am

Can anyone convince me otherwise that fighters *do* have tons of cheese as well (besides greater deathblow, I had a good laugh at that).

Silvanerian · Post by **Silvanerian** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 5:17 am

Almost every class have access to tons of cheese, as most cheese comes from bad AI or "errors" in the game. So it's not just because of certain HLA or spells that causes the cheese, but more that we take advantage of programming "errors".

-Syl.

Dour von Zlo · Post by **Dour von Zlo** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 5:25 am

I think the best fun is had with a combination of the two. Sure, there are many battles where your tank can just steam in there and wipe the floor with them, but it's so much more satisying (and varied) to let fly with a few well-chosen spells from the back ranks, even if they aren't really necessary.
Looks a lot nicer too

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 8:35 am

Yep. Spell effects are... absolutely scintillating... the way those little casting glows coruscate and pulsate as they rise inexorably in magnitude and culminate in your enemies' ignominous deaths

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 8:37 am

But somehow I simply love watching fighters hack an enemy to pieces too... Greater Whirlwind and behold the wounds blossoming on your victims body at an alarming rate...

Spell effects are a more flashy way to contrive your opponents' deaths though...

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 12:20 pm

To me, the basic principle is thus: a human opponent, by far, is the most dangerous opponent.

A computer mage, despite spell triggers, contingencies, items, etc, is more than likely to fall to you rather swiftly. So we have seen improved AI mods emerge for Jon Irenicus, for example, that load him up with cheese in order to make shish-kabobing him all the more difficult.

A computer fighter, however, is usually tougher to handle - at least in my experience. It's easier for the computer AI to use them. The cheese is easier to see, so to speak, and the intricacies of spell effects and combinations are lacking in the mechanics of sword-wielding. Greater whirlwinds, after all, are greater whirlwinds.

While the cheese potential and power of fighters is awesome, the potential of spell casters is even higher. A mage (not necessarily single-class) handled by a resourceful individual can pretty much obliterate anything, in short order. That's just the nature of magic, not an inherent superiority of one class over another. A character that blends both the skills of a warrior and a spell caster is perhaps the most fearsome of all. The potiential is virtually unlimited.

I suppose one isn't better than the other - it just depends on what kind of cheese you like best.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 12:53 pm

Well put Chanak!

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 1:42 pm

Indeed!

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 9:20 am

Heh, thanks Chanak, that really enlightened me

I think I shall retain my peculiar affinity for spells and casting glows/effects!

I think I'm addicted to Project Image... I wiped the Yaga Shura Lair with summons alone... only my sorcerer got one kill and the rest belonged to planetars and mordy swords... 4 images summoned 24 planetars.... a *really* neat army. Didn't rest once, too! (when you have 6 wishes...)

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sun Jun 02, 2002 10:26 pm

To my mind a mage is the better choice by far, if only because of three spells: Feeblemind, Flesh to Stone, and Polymorph other. Got an NPC who's ticking you off? Why not turn them into a lawn ornament? That guard who won't let you into the slavers headquarters getting up your nose? Hope you like eating nuts and living in tree trunks, pal, 'cos it's cute whiskers and a bushy tail for you. If that fool outside the Planar sphere who keeps trying to sell your stronghold to all and sundry won't shut up, just cast Feeblemind and he's a vegetable from now on. The best bit is that if the Feeblemind fails you can try again and again, as people don't go hostile when you cast this spell on them.

The ultimate in satisying revenge techniques, and they're all only available to mages.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 11:46 pm

That guard who won't let you into the slavers headquarters getting up your nose? Hope you like eating nuts and living in tree trunks, pal, 'cos it's cute whiskers and a bushy tail for you.

LOL!

Heheh, I turned Neeber into a squirrel once. He didn't like me much after that; but then, nobody in Trademeet liked me after that. Dirty rotten game designers!

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:29 am

I think it's the combination that dous the trick.
Mages are good, but they can't hack, or take damage.
Fighters can.

While you're fighters hack away, you're mages can cast spells to weaken the enemy.

But I think a good planned mage wins it from a good fighter after level (+-)12

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:07 am

Heh, yep, Stilgar... Quote: "Live by the sword... Get toasted by a well prepared mage."

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:43 pm

There isn't anything quite like a buffed-up mage-type going berserk on the battlefield (while transformed by Tenser, of course) with a Black Blade of Disaster. Nope, nothing like it.

I let Edwin do that a few times, and it was loads of fun.

blueguy · Post by **blueguy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:54 pm

Im sorry, but i happen to be a die-hard fighter (unfortunately, i literally do mean 'die-hard') we can be underpowered sometimes, but its just the prinicpal of it. Id rather go down needing to be ripped to shreds by hordes of spells and enemies than get an unlucky bop on the head from a hostile and then its soil fertilizer for you

Also, you might feel satisfied killing us fighters with your disintegrate or flesh to stone and taking joy in seeing our bodies crumple to thousands of pieces, but you are only WIELDING POWERS FREELY GIVEN TO YOU. you dont know how to SHAPE magic, you just know how to channel it. like its said, all mages are taught is that 'when you do this, that happens' not how, or why, or how you might change it to better the spell. Now, when youre a fighter-type like me, and youre lucky, you can have the satisfaction of knowing that through all a mages training and discipline and huge ungodly spells, you still ripped through him with a good piece of steel, like he was a stick of warm butter. and you might get the satisfaction of seeing his body fly into little bits and splatter all over the room.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:24 pm

How do you say "Bun-Bun"?

Or how about "Imprisonment". Or "Summon Planetar", or "Protection from Magic Weapons", or "Stoneskin". A mage with the SotM can go invisible at will, and you can't hit what you can't see.

And the powers aren't freely given to you, you have to study and learn the arcane tongues required in order to be a mage. Unless you're a sorc, in which case the powers are innate so understanding them becomes a bit redundant.

blueguy · Post by **blueguy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:30 pm

well, and what of the intense physical training a fighter must go through day after day after day improving his strength, constitution, and the like? It seems a tad more vigorous then pouring over arcane tomes while youre on the john looking for a good spell to memorize

and what do you plan to do the next time youre alone and a 100% magic resistant slayer strolls by? huh? dont go whining to me when hes picking bits of your flesh out of his teeth with your femer bone

blueguy · Post by **blueguy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:43 pm

most rewarding my buttocks! for a fighter, at the end of the day, he can gaze in pride upon the countless enemies he obliterated in an extreme frenzy and say 'ah, i did all this myself, without summoning some flashy red lights or fires from the pits of hell, or evoking residents of the underworld, or stopping time, or turning my enemies to stone. all i had to do was swing'

then my happy fighter dusts off his hands, picks up his trusty sword, and resumes his hacking away at the plentiful hordes of evil he has yet to slay in the name of glory

aaaaaaaaaah, its the good life, my friend

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:29 pm

Originally posted by blueguy
and what do you plan to do the next time youre alone and a 100% magic resistant slayer strolls by? huh?

I summon, then stand back, of course.