Kensai/Thief vs Fighter(Berzerker)/Thief

Hazim ibn Gorion · Post by **Hazim ibn Gorion** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 7:38 am

I had no idea that a kensai/thief could use the shadow armor. That changes everything.

But I still think that unless you're really into backstabbing then swashbuckler is the way to go. Everyone goes on about how they only have 6 hit dice, but they level up faster than warriors, so they have something helping them in the total HP area. I played a swashbuckler in a previous game, and she had around 90 HP and -8 AC by endgame. With a good supply of healing potions, she becomes a fighter thief with some excellent thieving skills.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 8:14 am

The big problem with a straight Swashbuckler as a fighter/thief is that they don't get any additional attacks like fighters do. So, a multi class fighter/thief or a fighter/thief dual classed at level 13 (which is where I recommend it in a party) will have 50% more offensive power than the swashbuckler.

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:04 am

Originally posted by ROWDIN:
-19 with shield -20 with draw upon holy might,
and i never backstab. so how do you get better
than -14 when you duel two weapons. yours rowdin.

sorry, but you'll lose your holly might, have you considered it?

L.

[This message has been edited by Loredweller (edited 03-13-2001).]

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 11:40 am

yes i have and i still think he's the best fighter i've played with. A 10.19 swashbuckler figther can have lower armour class
than any other fighter in the game.I didnt want a thief i wanted a fighter with a few extra abilitys he can detect traps and disarm them, pick locks and go stealth. if i dual two weapons he can have a armour class that you can only get with a shield. rage is very good but it wares off then what are you going to ask the big bad man to stop, so you can sit down. I like well rounded pc's a 10,19 swashbuckler fighter is a more all round pc than a single class fighter, and a better stronger fighter than any other dual classed thief in the game.If you take he's armour class and 3+ to damage into acount.yours rowdin

Siike · Post by **Siike** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 12:16 pm

K/T dualled at lvl 13 has it all. Very low thaco, high damage, weapon specialization, many attacks, high hitpoints, kai, ability to backstabb. All. Too bad you don't get to use it much

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 12:25 pm

If i roll a 20 you take 60+ damage. yours rowdin.

[This message has been edited by ROWDIN (edited 03-13-2001).]

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 1:42 pm

That's a pretty silly argument. If the K/T rolls a 20 you'll take even more than that since he has +1/+1 over your offensive bonus and can be using Kai. Beyond that, he has more HP.

The advantage for the Swashbuckler/Fighter is in the to hit versus the Kensai/Thief given the Kensai/Thief's weaker AC.

The S/F at 10/19 gets +3 AC, the K/T gets +2.
The S/F can wear Plate Armor (Dragonscale AC -1), the K/T can only wear Shadow Armor (AC 4). Most importantly, the S/F is a level 19 fighter with an additional +3 bonus giving him a great THAC0. The K/T still has a pretty good THAC0, but it's not as good.

I believe that all around the B/T is the best. Maybe not in straight up combat, but Enrage generally lasts as long as the fight and of course you don't use it until you need to. If it doesn't, it's not too long before the tiredness wears off and your can use it again.

Besides that, I really like using backstab.

Genesis · Post by **Genesis** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 1:50 pm

Ummm...they are all good...so there!

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 3:50 pm

I did'nt think you could take a critical hit if you had a helmet or am i wrong k/t can't where a helmet. Also my k/t can't wear shadow armour how do you do it?. yours rowdin.

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 8:52 pm

Wow, didn't know this was gonna be such a big debate. Either way, I'll have to check out using the Shadow Armor, because if I can, I would deffinately go that route, I'd give up the helmet & bracers.I really like to backstab, and once I do that I usually had to get out of there otherwise I'd end up dead meat, this way I'd be able stay in the fight. This forum is great, how else would you figure out how to fine tune your character, without spending great deals of time to get them to great levels, and then finding out that you can't do it. Thanks again to everyone.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Tue Mar 13, 2001 9:20 pm

k/t's can't wear helmets, but they can wear the ioun stones, which also seem to protect from crit. hits.
Also, any character can wear the mask of King Strohm III, which also protects from crit hits. It doesn't say so in the description, but it works.

ROWDIN · Post by **ROWDIN** » Wed Mar 14, 2001 5:12 am

thanks rail.

Sly · Post by **Sly** » Thu Mar 15, 2001 12:13 am

Regarding the Shadow Armor that a Kensai/Thief could wear. That would be when he has both Kensai & Thief Abilities? Has Anyone tried it with the Dragon Shadow Armor? Thanks on that Mask thing.

Nighthawk · Post by **Nighthawk** » Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:48 am

Unfortunately, it's just the Shadow armor. The thief-only condition over-rules the Kensai's no-armor condition, sort like the Mage-only condition for robes on Kensai/Mage.