Alignment

Maleous · Post by **Maleous** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 3:15 am

On the subject of alignment.

I've noticed that the same classes get different special abilities due to which alignment thay are. Good alignment gets access to more classes yet evil classes get to rap pillage and estroy, more$$. Ive always played as Chaotic Neutral (You can do anything you want and say it was a whim) but considering the bonuses for each alignment, which is most powerful?

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 3:40 am

I've only noticed a difference with being Evil or Good/Neutral in that you get other Bhaalspawn special abilities to start with and in Clerics and Druids, where - with being Evil, Neutral or Good -spells you get may vary. Also - for mages - your familiar will differ depending on the alignment of your PC. I can't say there's an alignment which is more "powerful" than the others. I think you should look at alignment from an RPG point of view and choose which one suits you best. In that respect, I think Evil characters are more likely to actually hunger for power, than Good characters, without therefore being more powerful.

Rattman · Post by **Rattman** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:00 am

i prefer CN like Eerhardt because you can do what you want and it says in the description that it is the class for psycho's or something like that and that suite's my playing style

however.........

with that said i am half way through playing as a Paladin and i must say it rocks to look at an evil thing be it man woman or orc and scream "DIE EVIL ONE, FOR GOODNESS" and slap it to hell so try changing your alingment try a evil barbarian they are fun

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 4:25 am

Originally posted by Rattman
i prefer CN like Eerhardt

I don't think Eerhardt ever said that...

Rattman · Post by **Rattman** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:07 am

bugger your right i have discarased my whole family

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:47 am

Originally posted by Rattman
bugger your right i have discarased my whole family

Disgraced, you mean? Indeed you have, little one.

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 10:36 am

I would say N. Evil you get to get more money than good but suffer in quest xp and low rep means higher prices. Good, if you are into serious RP, limits what you can and cannot do. Neutral AL are fairly unlimited.

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:02 pm

I would have to agree with mnwstln about N.Evils making more money than good, though AL Evils do too, as well. Generally I think that an evil party is a lot more powerful than a goody one, especially considering that evil NPCs in BG2 are a lot more focused in their classes or professions than good ones; thus, they're stronger IMO.
People always say that Neutrals can do whatever they want, but that's hardly the case. Neutrals have to keep a balance between law & chaos or/and good & evil actions, and also remember that CNs are MAD - in a RP perspective, yes, they can do whatever they want, but that might include suddenly unleashing a fireball in the middle of the Gvt building, dropping everyone in your party for no motive, and so on...so, not so easy to role-play. Being evil does not also mean that you pillage, rape and destroy - in fact, I would expect a Lawful Evil person to do the opposite - a corrupt politician would try to improve his reputation by all means possible, if just to benefit from it.
And goodies, blah!, I hate them.

blueguy · Post by **blueguy** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 1:50 pm

I know that being good limits what you can do in the game and doesnt make it as fun but..... its GOOD!!! i mean... saving little kids and getting cats out of trees and being a goodie... thats my forté. Im not ashamed to admit that, im a goodie, so? i still get to kick some serious backside, but in the NAME OF ALL THAT IS GOOD!!!! DIE EVIL!!!!

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 10:07 pm

I agree with Eerhardt: overall, there is no one alignment that is the "best" to play. There are numerous preferences: if you're thinking money or items, think of an evil alignment. If you're thinking of more XP and better reputation (thus cheaper prices at merchants), then think of a good alignment. A neutral alignment wouldn't go in either of those directions, exclusively. This is based upon a perspective of the game mechanics.

It's simply a matter of your own choice. I prefer good alignments, as I happen to like the results of those choices. It's up to you.

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:34 am

It does come down to preference. However I think the whole BG series is biased towards a Good party. You can be a jerk as an evil PC but there is now real allowance for a corrupt politician or any other interesting evil PC. You get more perks and can play more of the game as good. If you are evil there is a time limit on the best reason to try an evil PC, and eventually everthing cost a hundredthousand gp. All the side treks have a good component but some have no evil one.

While the evil NPC's are more focused there are more Good PC's. The good PC's are also amongst the best in the game in terms of stats. Edwin is the only real exception to this. You can make an entirely good party, but you cannot do the same with an evil party.

You can get most of the important items as a good PC without going against alignment. It becomes easier to buy items very quickly, as your rep hits twenty almost right off the bat. Additionally to get one of them you need either Keldorn or a PC paladin, since there is only one +5 weapon in the game.

Really with evil you are stuck with slaughter. Oh well.

Neutral's can have the best of both worlds and are therefore more versatile and thus conform (especially LN) to most playing styles. And they start with a combination of both good and evil abilities don't they? Or is that just NE.

Oh yeah I mean't Neutral and then Evil before. Not N.Evil. Sorry I wasn't paying attention.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 2:47 am

Originally posted by mynamewasstolen
The good PC's are also amongst the best in the game in terms of stats. Edwin is the only real exception to this.

You mean that the evil NPCs haven't as good stats as the good ones? And that Edwin is an exception (due to his extra spells?)

Most people here on the board are of the opinion that the evil NPCs are "stronger". A party with Korgan, Viconia, Edwin and, later, NPC X, is hard to beat. I prefer Anomen to Viconia, but except for that I have to agree on this.

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:08 am

You might want to add a SPOILER tag there, Astafas...

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:26 am

Originally posted by Alson
You might want to add a SPOILER tag there, Astafas...

Just change it to "new TOB-NPC" every one who has it know's who he means.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 6:27 am

Originally posted by Alson
You might want to add a SPOILER tag there, Astafas...

True, my mistake. Changed the text so it'll give nothing away.

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:59 am

SOME SPOILERS

Here is why I believe the evil NPC's to be of lower quality... with exception of Edwin.

Viconia low constitution and strength make her weak and hard to defend. Short of giving her the guantlets of ogre power she can not be equiped with anything more than chain and a buckler. While Anomen may be more annoying he does have superior stats, inaddition to 7 levels as a fighter, making him more usefull in the longrun.

Korgan is pretty good. However Keldorn and Minsce beat him hands down. Keldorn not only starts with good armor and a decent sword but is the only NPC who can make use of the best weapon in SoA. Later on he is able to gain the same abilities as Korgan, as well as some extra's... Summon Deva becomes a special ability (not spell) for Paladins. His low dex, which is not exceptionally low, can be alleviated almost immediatly using the appropriate guantlets; These Guantlets are not part of any cromwell decives either. I would have to check but I belive that Minsce's physical stats, and even all six of his stats, have a higher average than Korgan.

Even Edwin is somewhat unnicesary if you make use of Aerie and Imoen for plot reasons. His only real advantage is his number of spells... two mages out way this. In addition he cannot cast divination which annoys me. Overall I think Imoen provides all the nesicary magics a party can need.

That's my opinion. Overall their stats and abilities side towards the Good NPC's.

Even then it is dependant on playing style.

I intended to stay out of an arguement about NPC X as I have yet to play with him yet.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:23 am

I forget Viccy's MR. It can be easily raised up to 100 I think....

Anyway, I side with the good guys.
I agree that the developers gave some nice advantages to the evil NPCs, I mean, Edwin's amulet is unbelievable...
All in all, the evil NPCs tend to be great SINGLE-class charecters, while the good guys are multi or duals, so they're more powerful in the end, IMHO.

Take Anomen. Anomen is killer. I have him now, and after the test he became Lawful Good, so he has no more weak points for me..
Imoen can cover all the "thieving needs" (though not the "thieving wonders") Plus she's Immie!!!!

Always there.
Aerie, you all know, if used well, she's awesome.
Jaheria (GOOD in my opinion!!

) especially with ToB, is without any doubt one of the mightiest NPCs.
Jan (HE'S GOOD TOO!!!! Now I'm sure!!! I've played his quest!!!
He's good, no way!!! Also he wants to go to rescue Immie, good old Jan!!!

), being a multi mage/thief, can do wonders....

I intended to stay out of an arguement about NPC X as I have yet to play with him yet.

And no argument is needed. NPC X is the MOST powerful around.
AND don't forget that NPC X is HIGHLY adatable to your party, you all know you can trigger, ahh... let's say.. alternative ways of life, and steer the focus on new, ah..... professions!

(I never did this, I'm scared just at the thought.....)

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:12 pm

Bah! You goody-doers don't have a clue about what is good or evil, yer all just in it for the power.
SPOILER

I believe that an evil party rocks a lot more than a good one, not only because evil is cooler (some thread talks about this) but because NPC X is the most powerful, Korgan has the most hps (by far) and is a single fighter, Edwin has LOTS of spells and Viconia has Wis 18 + High MR + she can get strength enhancements. What's more, the theme of the party is POWER, and that's what evil's about, so you can really roleplay your greedy desires, be it to kill for XP or money or what have ya.
@mynamewasstolen: so what if some evil are just about slaughter?...don't tell me good parties don't go out happily killing everything they can without losing sight of their goal.
Goodyness is a FARCE and this is my PROOF:
Good = Carsomyr + Discounts + More XP Quests + Ranger/Paladin
Now, we know that:
Carsomyr = Power
Discounts = Economic Benefits = Money = Power
More XP Quests = Power
Ranger/Paladin = Power
Thus Good = Power^4
as Power = Evil...then Good = Evil^4
Thus, being good means being very evil.

There's no way out of this, unless you're neutral...goodyness does not exist...it is an abstract thing that is overrated...it's survival of the fittest (since when has it not been?

)
DEATH TO THE GOOD DOERS! Who else agrees with me?

Robnark · Post by **Robnark** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:26 pm

Who else agrees with me?

the little men who live in your toilet?

seriously, the quests etc. are usually geared up for do-gooders (such as myself), but i believe that the main evil NPCs - Viconia, Keldorn, Edwin - are exceptionally good. however, other than Viconia, there is, from a plot point of view, little point having them in your group unless you're powergaming. also, since there are a variety of very decent good NPCs, a good-aligned party needn't miss out on the power, and is easier to justify plot-wise.

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:56 pm

Originally posted by Robnark

the little men who live in your toilet?

Uhm...I didn't know little men lived in my toilet - that's voyeurism that IS, next time I'll flush 'em, that'll teach those toilet gnomes!