Dungeons ( spoiler! )

jerubal · Post by **jerubal** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 7:28 pm

Mine too, you're lucky to find one pure mage class with me. Heavily armoured clerics and fighters, that's where it's at.

Sendai's still wasn't a great dungeon for me. Although I enjoyed the slaughter of the spiders and slaves...

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:45 am

Sendai isnt that hard at high lvls, methinks. but then again cheese makes everything easy.

Sendai's dungeon however was really disapointing, only the liche is any trouble and only becouse he uses imprisonment but at low lvl.. he is just a drow mage and a real ponce at that.

for tob... I liked Abazigals lair, just for the three dragons and the low lvl party, a good laugh and some good fights + nuff loot

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:16 am

yeah, I liked the three adventurers...
Tim Goldenhand
Namoc the Barbarian
(Leader) Bondari...

They reminded me of my days in BG1... Namoc is *suitably unfettered by the .... of civilization* Tim can *magic missile* and Bondari can *backstab* (multiplier two)... and boy was I surprised when I turned into the slayer and massacred them and bondari reloaded and returned the eyestalk in a more... contrite demeanour

Gloop · Post by **Gloop** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:23 am

My first party was Mage Heavy... two (almost) pure mages (immie and nalia), one non-fighting cleric (viccy), 2 fighters (Paladin PC and minsc) and one half-fighter half-priest (jaheira)
3 fighters

my second one was
sorcerer
jaheira
anomen
keldorn
minsc
imoen
4 fighters

these two only went through SoA...

third
conjurer
jan
keldorn
sarevok
jaheira
anomen
4 fighters (with one super fighter)

fourth
fighter/thief (my main fighter in fact...)
keldorn
anomen
jaheira
solaufein
tashia
thats 5 fighters...

I beat sendai with my third party... my fourth party is currently outside sendai's enclave, but i suspect she shouldn't be much of a problem, what with around 24 planetars distracting her minions and clones...

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:22 pm

I did it with:

Me (mage)
Minsce
Keldorn
Jahiera
Imoen
Aerie

Jaheira is pretty useless at higher levels I find. And three mages in ToB is pretty rough, considering everything has near to 100 percent magic resistance.

I can't think of a comparable fight.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:05 pm

The ToB final battle is difficult if you ask me - at least until you've found out that you just need to concentrate the fire on one target.

The first time I finally lowered difficulty because I was so completely frustrated.

The second time I knew better and went in with some healing potions, no wish spells and no cheese and took our friend down before her minions could even raise a claw.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 2:22 pm

This thread has moved over to ToB in content, so now it's moved in reality.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:10 pm

Originally posted by fable
This thread has moved over to ToB in content, so now it's moved in reality.

*Adds accompanying magical effects, ie. puff of smoke, suitably magic noise, etc.* You always forget the effects, Fable.

Sendai wasn't too hard, I thought. The only character I had die was Anomen, and I only had to summon 1 planetar and a few Mordenkainen's swords to deal with the drow that kept on coming through the door, and together with Sarevok they handled everything. Sendai, who was unable to cast her spells due to my archer (archers are the ultimate mage-disrupters, BTW) went down pretty quick.

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:28 pm

I find that playing a mage becomes very tedious very quickly in ToB. Sendai is one of the reasons why. Having a Mage strong party is a waste of time. I think I will enjoy it more when I go through with my Half-Orc Berserker.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:20 am

Its a funny thing.. But I find mages are all too powerfull in tob 100% mr isnt that much of a hassle when theres things like sunfire and dragons breathe.

Once you get improved alacrity the game becomes a real larf.. If something doesnt survive the dragons breathes and sunfires.. five hundred hasted mordenkainens sword sweep in and cut it to shreds

Fighters are all well and good, but even in tob with big mr for all mages still consume all in seconds...

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Tue Jun 04, 2002 12:40 pm

Try using Dragon's breath against Sendai.

The majority of the difficult combats are closs quarters and you haven't much time to cast spells before you are besset with enemies, who disrupt your casting. Alacrity is useless since the are four or five items that reduce your casting time to a near negligible number. Sunfire is very usefull.

I would rather have four tanks in my party than four wizards. The tanks are more versitile.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:37 am

not trying to be a smartass... but there are NO items that mimic the abilities of improved alacrity, Items can lower the casting time of the individual spells but they do not lower the time between spells

You shouldnt be getting hit, you should have protection spells up or be invisible or time stopped.

Dragons breathe doesnt take long to cast.. it eats sendai provided your high enough lvl to keep casting it

Id rather have mages, and leave the tanking to mord swords and planetars

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 11:53 am

One of the first things she cast is dispell magic, or some similar spell, as a result all of your protections go.

Lowering casting times between spells is irrelevant when you have three mages.

Dragon's breath harms your own party and kills summoned mosters, doesn't it?

It's nevertheless far easier to stand on one of the platforms with two tanks in the front than to try to take her down with spells. She is far more open to physical attacks than magical one's.

Paladin's can summon deva's, and clerics can summon planetars... and both classes can become tanks.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 12:20 pm

Lowering casting times is always relevant.. Three mages with improved alacrity can litterally remove all oposition in seconds, there is no better ninth lvl spell to use than alacrity or possibly chain con, though chain con is often overkill in mage heavy parties. HAving your combat prots dispelled doesnt bother you when alacrity is up, as they all cast instantly and with no wait time your defenses can be brough back up in a flash

Dispell magic does not remove invisibility, stonekins cast in an instant and can easily be recast after you have been hit with dispell

Dragons breathe does not harm your party or summons, planatars can ONLY be summoned by mages, not paladins or preists. Planatars have better spells than deva's, though the difference isnt really much

Mordenkainens sword is a better tank than either anyway, the bastard things just cant be killed, if swords arnt your preference though mages can summon more than five creatures due to project image.

What I dont understand is that you say mages get there spells disrupted and you dont seem to get the same trouble with clerics... when they have no means of nullifying enemy hits and there spells take much longer to cast

But heres my reason for prefering mages... Mages are not capable of physical attacks, true but they can summon things that are and then they can bring down prots so the summons have an easier time, a few hasted swords on the platforms do the trick, with mages breaching all the while

brian0182001 · Post by **brian0182001** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:52 am

Hmmm, I have to go with Windspear Hills, if only for the complexity of it all, except for Firkraag's rather weak, though believable, reasoning for bringing you there in the first place.

In the Windspear Hills, you have it all... intrigue, drama, and lots of blood and gore. (Side Note: I don't know if it's true but the paladins you slaughter in the beginning, is one of them the Paladin, Ajantis, you met in the first Baldur's Gate? I seem to recall hearing this once, but have never had it happen in the game. If anyone knows what triggers that knowledge, let me know, please. Thanks!)

In the Windspear Hills you have Ogres, Orcs, vampires, wolfweres, an old foe in Tazok, and a new foe... the red dragon Firkraag!

This one has the most to do in it, without getting repetitive. And it can be almost as spooky as the Umar Hills dungeon.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 12:45 pm

I don't know if it's true but the paladins you slaughter in the beginning, is one of them the Paladin, Ajantis, you met in the first Baldur's Gate?

Yes he's one of them...can't remember exactly how you find this out, its either when Keldorn is in your party or if the protagonist is a paladin him/herself.

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:15 pm

This really is a moot arguement because it is so dependent on playing style.

A mage is nesicary. This is goes without saying. Many mages are not. I prefer a larger spread.

A deva and a planetar are in essence the same. Really Globe of blades is all they need. I find that the AI for the planetars is a little more annoying however. They have more healing spells and as a result I find they leave a combat to heal a PC or other summoned monster to commonly. That is just my observation.

How often do you have to rest?

Clerics can have an AC of near to -8 if not lower. They don't get hit as often and so don't get disrupted. They also have better saves. Paladin's have the best saves. The special summon Elementals ability is awesome.

I'm not saying mages are bad. I'm saying that their power level is diminished by ToB when compared to any other class. Not that they are less powerful than other classes but less powerfull in terms of comparable growth.

Mangle Me Elmo · Post by **Mangle Me Elmo** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 9:41 pm

Favorite dungeon would be Beholder Maze in Underdark b/c of the piss easy experience w/ Shield of Balduran. Most annoying dungeon would have to be the Mind Flayer city right next door, I really hate Mind Flayers. Most annoying battle would have to be Draconis. After a few hundred attemtps to kill this guy with many different strategies, I just ctrl + Y the poor lizard until some one can give me a strategy to finally beat him fairly *hint hint*

.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat Jun 08, 2002 10:37 pm

Originally posted by gnomethingy
not trying to be a smartass... but there are NO items that mimic the abilities of improved alacrity

There is now!

mynamewasstolen · Post by **mynamewasstolen** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 10:56 pm

I wish I could resolve all contrary points in an arguements with code.

Nice work Ode.