Thieving Stats

Maleous · Post by **Maleous** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:29 am

Im confused as to How many thief stats each class gets. As faar as I know the Thieving Classes are;

Monk
Bard
Thief
Assasin
Bounty Hunter
Swashbuckler.

I didnt count ranger because you dont actually distribute those points. Now I am playing a MP party with a monk and a swashbuckler in it. At the moment I havent played much, Themnk recieved 15 points at his lvl up and the swasbuckler recieved 25.

Do certain classes start with more points(at lvl 1) than other classes?
How many points do Assasin, Bounty Hunter and Bard actually get each lvl.
Which are the most useful skills and how many points are most effective in each?

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:48 am

Originally posted by Maleous
Which are the most useful skills and how many points are most effective in each?

Find and disarm traps as the locks which are vital to the story line can always be forced open.

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:50 am

I'm not sure on the exact stats, but you can always start a new game, create an Assasin or Bounty Hunter and check the kit description in the Character Record screen for the exact percentages.

Also, Dexterity affects your thieving points (generally, each point of Dexterity will raise some of your thieving skills by 5%)

Most useful skills: Find/Remove Traps and Open Locks. You'll need at least a 100% in those to be able to remove all traps and open all locks (unless they're "magically" warded). Hide in Shadows is also a very useful skill. Points in this skill, will improve the chance of succesfully using stealth and becoming "invisible". Points in Move Silently will affect how long you can remain hidden after using Hide in Shadows. Over 100% in Detect Illusion, will allow you to "dispel" illusions more quickly.

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:50 am

there is no disarm trap stat, per se because the open locks value is used to disarm traps.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:52 am

I'd put remove traps and lock picking as the most important skills as they're unique to thieves, assassins, swashies and bounty hunters. You don't need much more than 100% in either.

Having high scores in the other abilities is advantageous for performing the feats under difficult circumstances, ie pickpocketing multiple times or from high level individuals. Don't go over 250% though as the score will warp back to zero.

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:54 am

Monk gets 15 becuase he is not a thief, and the developers wanted to give him some extra abilities
Swashbuckler gets 25 because thats the rule. he gets not thieving modifiers, but can't backstab
Bounty Hunter gets 20 because of the rule
Assassin gets 15
Bard's points only go into pickpockets and is based on dexterity.

Also initial dexterity modies the starting stats as well as race. check the manual for a more indepth explanation, but as a rule a high dexterity gives u better stats and halflings make the best thieves. sad but true.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:16 am

Originally posted by DrSlikk
there is no disarm trap stat, per se because the open locks value is used to disarm traps.

How do you explain Find/Remove Traps in that case?

Maleous · Post by **Maleous** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:27 am

More questions...

What is move silently? is it related to hide in shadows?
How do you force a lock?

Should I change my Swashbuckler to a Bounty hunter or a Fighter/Thief? The monk could get 100 in detect traps and still have points left over for hide in shadows to sneak up on mages.

That leaves 23lvls * 20 points per level = 460 points for the Bounty hunter.
Is the Bounty Hunter's Traps Worth the loss of 115 thief points and the Swashbuckler combat bonuses.
Is The Fighter/Thief combat bonuses worth the loss of 175 thief points

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:33 am

Hide in shadows hides you in the first place. Move silently determines how long you can stay hidden. If you want to use a character for backstabbing or scouting, I'd put slightly more into hide in shadows but keep move silently pretty high too.

You force locks by force attacking a door or container, ie click twice on a handheld weapon icon and then click on whatever it is you want to force. High strength helps loads.

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:37 am

Ok, Move Silently is related to Hide in Shadows as I stated before in that, after Hiding in Shadows, Move Silently will determine how long you can remain hidden before your Hide in Shadows fails and you become visible again.

You can force a lock by selecting a weapon on the bottom of your screen, clicking on the weapon icon and, while the weapon icon is still active (red lining), clicking on a lock. You will bash the lock open. If the lock is trapped, however, you'll probably spring it when you do and take damage...

Can't say that I have a lot of experience with a Swashbuckler. The Bounty Hunter's traps are definitely worth the loss, if you use the "set traps" skill a lot during the game. As far as the Fighter/Thief is concerned, I'd go with a dual-classed F/T instead of a multiclassed Thief.

Maleous · Post by **Maleous** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:40 am

Why the dual-class, you cant have a halfling then.

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:49 am

Dualclassing will allow you to reach a higher level as a Thief, depending on which level you dualclass. Check the manual for maximum experience points and on how many of those points you need to spend on your Thief class to reach maximum level. The remaining experience points will tell you at which level you need to dualclass your Fighter. Of course, if you don't want to reach max level with your Thief, you can always dualclass later or go for a multiclass character (and get the halfling bonuses, for instance) - the choice is yours.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 6:43 am

Originally posted by Maleous
Why the dual-class, you cant have a halfling then.

I addition to what Eerhardt said, a dual Fighter/Thief can grand master in a weapon (*****) while a multi can only get specialized (**). The normal is to dual at either level 9 or 13, I prefer the first.

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 3:15 pm

Originally posted by Astafas

How do you explain Find/Remove Traps in that case?

touche my friend but how do u explain the following situation?

::Astafas finds a chest and detects a trap on it. He cannot remove the trap due to a low skill level. The master thief DrSlikk suggests, "Hey Astafas, try a potion of master thievery" With hope insight, the apprentice thief Astafas drinks the potion and lo and behold, suceeds in both unlocking the chest and removing the trap::

However, my friends, the potion of master thievery affects on pickpockets and open locks. Hmm, since it affected his remove trap ability there can be only one of two reasons
1. Remove traps is seperate and it is a bug
or
2. Your remove traps skill is indeed your open locks skill.

I think we both know who is right in this case.

Invincible121 · Post by **Invincible121** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:49 pm

how does the detect illusion stat increase?

i know that jan has those goggles, well i think its the goggles, that increase it..but is there any other way?

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 5:16 pm

Originally posted by Invincible121
how does the detect illusion stat increase?

i know that jan has those goggles, well i think its the goggles, that increase it..but is there any other way?

Put more skills in it,
and i believe you roll a dice.
You detect illusions by putting the findtrap mode on.

baudib · Post by **baudib** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:26 pm

I think the most important skills are Find traps, HiS/MS, Open Locks.

Pickpocketing is nice early in the game, to steal stuff from stores. There are a couple of nice items to get from robbing individuals, but not too many (a ring of regeneration available in Chapter 2 is nice).

For multiple attempts or for stealing from high-level people, just get the gloves of pickpocketing and drink some potions of master thievery to get up around 150 or so.

HiS/MS is a must, not only for backstabbing purposes but it's great to use to scout out areas and remove the fog of war.

I never bother to put points in pickpockets late in the game, because you have so much friggin' money, it doesn't matter. There are a couple of tough battles (especially in TOB) where set traps comes in handy, but I usually forget about them, plus I think they're slightly cheesy.

Lastly, I'll put points in dispel illusions....I hardly ever use it because usually a cleric or mage can just cast true seeing, but once in a while it comes in handy.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:53 am

Originally posted by DrSlikk

touche my friend but how do u explain the following situation?

::Astafas finds a chest and detects a trap on it. He cannot remove the trap due to a low skill level. The master thief DrSlikk suggests, "Hey Astafas, try a potion of master thievery" With hope insight, the apprentice thief Astafas drinks the potion and lo and behold, suceeds in both unlocking the chest and removing the trap::

However, my friends, the potion of master thievery affects on pickpockets and open locks. Hmm, since it affected his remove trap ability there can be only one of two reasons
1. Remove traps is seperate and it is a bug
or
2. Your remove traps skill is indeed your open locks skill.

I think we both know who is right in this case.

You're probably right in this matter. I wasn't arguing with you though, but trying to find an answer to something I found illogical. Should what you say be correct, there is no such thing as Find/Remove Traps but only Find Traps. I know for certain that the Open Lock skill was used for disarming traps in BG1, so this could very well be true for BG2 as well.

In one matter you're obviously wrong, though. I would of course be the master thief and you my young (not so talented) apprentice.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 1:15 am

Wow, never realized that before -- so it should be find traps and pick locks/remove traps?

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:21 am

No it is find/remove traps and open locks.
If you have no skill in find/remove traps but high skill in open locks you cannot find or remove traps. Try it by creating a thief with high skills in open locks and no skill in find traps. Then detect the trap with a cleric or another thief and try to remove the trap. You will see that you can't.
Maybe you drank a potion of perception?
Also sometimes you can fail to disarm a trap but succed if you try again straight away which IMO is wrong.