World Cup 2002

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:55 am

Korea-Portugal

A game which really came to life due to the troublesome tackles. Two red cards for Portugal and I almost changed the channel, after they started to play negative football. Thankfully the Koreans continued to play their brand of attacking football. And deserved that goal. Will edit after the game finishes, the Portugese are causing problems in the dying minutes. Well not much did change except that Portugal are now going home

But the host nations are through

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:12 am

USA-Poland
It looks like the Americans have backed into the second round (3-1 loss to Poland). I didn't get to see the game, but I was running the webcast from WorldCup.com here at work, and it looks like the Poles handed really stuck it to us. Good thing we got some help from Portugal . . .

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:46 am

Poland-USA, South Korea-Portugal:
edited visible

Poland took a surprising early 2-0 lead over USA. This meant both Portugal and Korea would qualify at the cost of USA, if they held a draw. Portugal had one man (Pinto) sent off early, and were lucky not to get yellow for their fierce protest, one player grabbed the ref around the head with both hands!
Portugal clearly played for 0-0, the end of the 1st half was a joke, it looked like Italy-Mexico yesterday.
About 20 minutes into the 2nd half, Portugal had Beto sent out. 5 mins later the inevitable happens, Korea scores 1-0, Portugal is out and has only 9 men. The game turns around completely, Portugal are not desperate to get a goal. They had several chances, but the match ended 1-0. In the meanwhile, Poland and USA played 3-1, but thanks to South Koreas win, USA went through anyway. So just like Italy should thank Ecuador, the USA should sent flowers to the Koreans who refused to play a 0-0 where they and Portugal would both go through.

They wanted to win, and they did

Nice that both the host nations are among the last 16

Poor Portugal are now going home, yet another favorite is out.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:50 am

I have a bonehead question about substitutions in soccer, er . . . football.

How often can you substitute? I've noticed that almost no one does. How often can a team substitute? Why aren't there line changes like in hockey?

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:53 am

@ CE Expect another fine like that given to Rivaldo. Thats not allowed in any domestic competion, so why on earth you would see it in footballs greatest event is beyond me. I'm surprised that the referee managed to keep his composure.

@HLD Three subs, but they rarely ever sub unless its an injury related problem.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:56 am

You can substitute three players in one match. Once you have made your three substitutions you cannot replace any more players even if someone is injured.
I don't know why you can't change more often like you can in other team sports really. I just know that it used to be only two substitutions.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 7:59 am

@HLD: In a football game, 11 players are supposed to play the entire match. Then, all teams are allowed 3 substitutions during the match. Those 3 substitutions can be made whenever the teams wishes to, but they are usually done late in the game. No coach wants to waste his 3 substitues early, when players are fresh and nobody is injured.
Substitutions are of course made if a player is injured, but they can also be used tactically. For instance, if a teams leads with a goal and there is 10 mins left of the game, the leading team might want to change a very offensive and attacking forward to a more defensive player. Sometimes a substitute is simply to replace a player who is a little tired, or who the coach wants to "save" for the next match, if their team already has a safe lead.

@Tammy: I hope it will be a fine, it was no better than Rivaldo's stunt.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:01 am

Originally posted by Tamerlane
@HLD Three subs, but they rarely ever sub unless its an injury related problem.

Why not? Aside from holding back in case of injury, why wouldn't you want people with fresh legs in as often as possible?

I ask this because my son plays youth league soccer and they guarantee each child a certain amount of playing time (1 quarter, I believe) so they substitute regularly each quarter. My stepdaughter played high school soccer and they sub pretty much at will. What is the reasoning behind only allowing 3 subs?

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:08 am

@HLD

Well here is my example. Italy subbing Totti for Del Piero late in every one of their matches. Like CE said, its a tactical move. You replace the Attacking Midfield/Striker combination of Vieri and Totti for two pure strikers Del Piero and Vieri. In hope of pushing an already fatigued defense into collapsing into an array of errors.

You now have an experienced striker who knows the defenders ie. Vieri, and a young aggresive player like Del Piero to help maintain the momentum into the last 15 minutes or so.

Plus you do need one sub in case of injury. And even then if its just a cramp, the player is expected to play on.

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:08 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave
I have a bonehead question about substitutions in soccer, er . . . football.

How often can you substitute? I've noticed that almost no one does. How often can a team substitute? Why aren't there line changes like in hockey?

In These three substitution BruceLee mention do not count the substitution made in the break-time.
People use to substitute only two because of accidents with goalkeeper.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:13 am

Originally posted by Delacroix
In These three substitution BruceLee mention do not count the substitution made in the break-time.

So can you substitute at will at halftime? If your team has a lot of depth, it seems reasonable that you could do a "line switch" at halftime and have an entirely new crew with fresh legs for the second half. Is that right?

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:14 am

Originally posted by C Elegans
@Tammy: I hope it will be a fine, it was no better than Rivaldo's stunt.

I kept motioning at the TV trying to mentally tell him to stop, but he wouldn't.

It was not only excessive but went on for way too long.

EDIT- Are you sure the substitution at half time doesn't account for the three subs

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:23 am

Originally posted by HighLordDave

So can you substitute at will at halftime? If your team has a lot of depth, it seems reasonable that you could do a "line switch" at halftime and have an entirely new crew with fresh legs for the second half. Is that right?

Yes, but the team have a tatical scheme with the titulars players.
Those players are trainned to play for 90 minutes. Those in the field are supose to play better than the others. That's why there are few substitution; only tatical.

Ex: To keep a score increase one defender.

Substitutions because of resistence only happens in prorrogations(30 min. with golden gol ends) or hurted players.

Tamerlane:
EDIT- Are you sure the substitution at half time doesn't account for the three subs

Internal(national) league is this way. But if I talking something wrong I apologise, better to someone confirm my words, since now I am in doubt too.

Word · Post by **Word** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:06 am

@Delacroix I am 97% sure that they do count for substitutions by FIFA standards.

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:13 am

Originally posted by Word
@Delacroix I am 97% sure that they do count for substitutions by FIFA standards.

I'm with the rules in my monitor now.
You are right. They count.(since they don't mention break substitutions)
Only three substitution in the full game, including prorrogation.
No gkeeper exclusivity.
Sorry HLD. My mistake.

But this rule(free breake substitutions) is common around here(Latine America).

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:18 am

Thanks, guys. I see that I have much to learn about the world's sport.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:28 am

C Elegans... we haven't to thank Ecuador for qualifications!
We have to thank nobody.
They took AT LEAST three goals from us.
We have only to watch our back against other thefts.
And Croatia earned elimination, BTW.

I have to raise an argument here.
I talked with lots of people, friends who played football more
seriously than I have.
They all say what TV keeps saying: even the fourth goal was regular,
'cause to call an offside you have to "see the light" between
the attacker and the last defender.
This is the expression used, "see the light"
So, technically, Montella wasn't offside.
@Word: can you enlighten us? How is the rule exactly written?
How come that the WHOLE Italy knows the rule that way?
May it be that the rules are different for a world cup??

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:56 am

Originally posted by Word

@Yshania it is the second to last defender so if the goalie is beyond the last defender he becomes the line.

@Littiz im a FIFA certified ref in the USA.

Are you counting the goalkeeper as the last defender?

Leaving the goalkeeper out of the equasion, a player is offside if he is beyond the line of the final defender at the time that the ball is played forward.

@Littiz, you are correct, pass backs do not count!

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:58 am

It may be that the rules for that particular decision are viewed differently in Italy

That was clearly offside IMO. However I agree that you have been hard done by.
What was wrong with Totti in the match against Mexico?
He wasn't good at all, almost as bad as Figo.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 12:00 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave

Why not? Aside from holding back in case of injury, why wouldn't you want people with fresh legs in as often as possible?

I ask this because my son plays youth league soccer and they guarantee each child a certain amount of playing time (1 quarter, I believe) so they substitute regularly each quarter. My stepdaughter played high school soccer and they sub pretty much at will. What is the reasoning behind only allowing 3 subs?

@HLD, my son plays football for a local league. It is common practice for a child to be substituted every ten minutes with no limit to the amount of substitutes - I believe this is due to age.

In professional football three subs are the norm though more actually sit on the bench