Fighter/thief

robinhood7 · Post by **robinhood7** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:13 pm

I wanna try to play an elf fighter/thief. I was wondering if this character would be ok based on the fun level. Also i woild like to know how effective he is in the game. I am looking for a strong fighter while having that sneakiness. I probably will gear most of my skill points towards hide in shadows etc. Is this class right for me or should i pick something else? thanx for the help

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:23 pm

u can try a swashbuckler. they get better fighting skills and a thaco/ac bonus. kinda like a kensai for thieves. but there's no backstab, so u might be discouraged. it is however very fun. some of my best games were playing a dashing human swahsbuckelr, who had a weakness for the ladies. my party was me, arie, nalia, jahiera, viconia and mazzy.

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 8:17 pm

yes, technically a fighter/thief is better, bt a swashbuckler gets experience faster, meaning u will get better thieving abilities. also since hide in shadows/move silently is praticaly useless, u can focus on the other skills. also a swashbuckler gets an intial +1 to ac/thaco and an additional +1 every 5 levels, so by lvl 20 u can get +6ac/thaco, which coupled with a dex of 18 means a base ac of 0. a fighter thief will not get to such a high level, however im not sure about the thaco diff between the 2 classes. but just think that putting 2*'s in a weapon and 3*'s in dual wield, means u will have a thaco similair to a ranger or paladin, and that is without the +6 bonus by the end. also after uai, he will be able to use any weapon with such a bonus, while a thief/mage will take a longer time to get that ability. plus u can dual a swashbucler to a mage or even a fighter to take advantage of the bonuses. a good level is 12 because u will get enough proficiency points to specialize in a weapon and put 3*'s in dual wield, as well as various thaco and ac bonuses. i usually make him use short swords, as there are plenty of good ones, and 2 +4's if u have tob. in conclusion the swashbuckler makes a very effective tank, that can also use various thieving abilties. besides wouldn't you want to be the epitome of charm and grace?

robinhood7 · Post by **robinhood7** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:05 pm

Thanks alot.......
I got one question though. Wouldnt the fighter/theif be better because they can be more proficient with a weapon. Also what weapons would be a good thief weapon? I thought maybe a long sword or something. thanks

fallenheart · Post by **fallenheart** » Fri Jun 14, 2002 9:25 pm

I tried both Fighter/Thief and Swashbucker. They are both amazing classes. However, I had more fun with Fighter/Thief. My swashbucker ended up with -26 AC by the end of the game(ToB). I don't remember what his final thac0 was.
Swashbucker is superior to F/T in just about evey aspect, but I really missed backstab.
You can not go wrong with either class.. You will have helluva time having fun.
I would give nod to F/T, but that's just me (and my obession with backstab

)

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 2:23 am

I have to disagree, from a POWERPLAYING PoV fighter/thief are more powerful, they have ALL thief and warrior abilities, and the first (probably UAI) is gained when the TOTAL xp is 3.000.000,
just when the Swashbuckler gains it.

They too can put three stars in dual-wieldin', and the thac0 will always be almost the same, with the same XPs.
The only thing is the better AC for a Swash.

The may be cooler for roleplaying, though

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 9:07 am

any weapon available to thief is good, but from a strictly role playing point of view, thieves usually use short swords/daggers. especially if u are playing on the smaller/slimmer races. long swords are also ok, but they harder to conceal than short swords/daggers, and technically are not backstab weapons.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 9:23 am

I don't mean to contradict you, DrSlikk, as I don't want to risk the anger of any of the CEOs of Bioware (

), but a long sword is a backstabbing weapon, as are any of the weapons a thief is allowed to use.

Rattman · Post by **Rattman** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 9:44 am

but a long sword is a backstabbing weapon, as are any of the weapons a thief is allowed to use

from a strictly role playing point of view

see that

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:20 am

technically are not backstab weapons.

@ Ratman: See that?

Technically they are back stabbing weapons. From a roleplaying view, they are arguably not.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 5:08 pm

IMHO from the roleplaying point of view ...

halflings shouldn't use long swords except as two handed weapons (unfortunately creature size vs. weapon size rules are not implemented in BG2)
halflings simply can't wield size L weapons (halberd, two handed sword, etc.)
elves shouldn't dual wield long swords (long swords are heavy and elves are quite small altough they qualify as size M creatures)
thieves shouldn't wear shields (they need their hands for other things than carrying a shield in front of them)
backstabbing weapons should allow to wear them reasonably concealed (unlike eg the Staff of the Ram)
[/list=a]

Besides that, F/T is a great fun class and is extremely powerful - backstabbing makes quite a difference and it's also a major reason to have good HIS / MS skills. A thief runs many risks for the group and making him the PC certainly adds to the fun of the game.

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:10 pm

yes, u are right. a long sword is too big to be used for backstab, since u can't properly conceal it. but i must disagree and say that elves can use long swords, simply because elves are not much shorter than humans, and some of the more famous elves, i.e zankafein do'urden, have used them masterfully. and while backstab is important, it just doesn't go with a swashbuckler. their fighting style is flashy and not devious. however, its up to u in the end. also i found that if u dual a swashbuckler u can put more *'s into weapon proriciencies. i dualled into a mage and when i regained by swash and got more *'s, i put them into short swords, and i was able to take it up to grandmastery.

DaringCommander11 · Post by **DaringCommander11** » Sat Jun 15, 2002 10:38 pm

I hate to start a discussion on Backstabing but if I don't see you coming you can backstab with just about anything. All-be-it is probably harder to do it with certain weapons (halberd, big axe) in plenty of stores a person will be snuck up on and smacked in the back of the head with a club or staff.

I prefer the 3E version of Sneak Attack that allows you to use any weapon. The concept is that they may see the attack coming but it is going for the vitals and there is nothing that can be done about it unless the thief skrews up.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 12:05 am

also i found that if u dual a swashbuckler u can put more *'s into weapon proriciencies. i dualled into a mage and when i regained by swash and got more *'s, i put them into short swords, and i was able to take it up to grandmastery.

Sorry, but this isn't true. A swashy without a fighter class cannot do more than specialize in anything.

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 3:20 am

I think the fighter/thief multiclass is better than the swashbuckler because I just can't see the swashbuckler equalling the likes of a fighter (unless he's very high level, at which point you're moving into TOB territory). I think that in BG2, if you've got enough warriors, play with the Swashbuckler class for thief skills and an added warrior boost. But let's say you're using an all-evil party with only 3 NPCs, then I think a fighter/thief is better - the backstab helps a LOT! and can get you through many tight situations.
Besides, a fighter/thief with 18 con can get up to 11 hps/level and a swashbuckler only 8. That may not seem much, but by level 9 that could mean a difference of 3x9 = 27 hit points.
IMO, a fighter/thief is deadlier, and I just could never choose a rogue with no backstab (if you're going for the swashbuckler for fighting progress, why not choose a fighter?)

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 3:43 am

I agree on the HP issue - F/T gains more HP and gets the 17+CON and the 18+ STR bonus. And besides the ability to specialize in weapons, the F/T gets both fighter and thief HLA. To have or not to have fighter HLA makes a serious difference. A high level fighter thief certainly qualifies as a heavy duty tank. There are also very good thief armors available later in the game that put the F/T close to the fighter classes concerning armor.

On the elves and long swords issue: I have no problem with elves wielding long swords, but I think an elf wielding two of them would look a little ridicolous. Long sword and dagger would be fine. I personally prefer halflings over elves as F/Ts.

DrSlikk · Post by **DrSlikk** » Sun Jun 16, 2002 7:03 pm

Originally posted by kopywrite

Sorry, but this isn't true. A swashy without a fighter class cannot do more than specialize in anything.

yes i no, but it happened to me. i was able to put 4*'s in short swords after gained weapon proficeincys with the mage class. call it a bug, but it happened. caught me off gaurd too.

also on the subject of backstabbin, yes it it possible to use anything. but it is not possible as well. what are the chances of u sneaking behind someone while holding a halbred? even more, what are the chances of hidding in shadows with a halbred? the same goes for pretty much anyweapon other than a short sword or a dagger, simply because they are easy to hide and take out. the only ohter weapon is the x-box/bow because u can use it to hit someone from across the room, without them knowing.

also fighter/thief limits u to an amount of xp, unless u have the cap remover, and this is also taken into affect when determining hp and other things.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 1:54 pm

i was able to put 4*'s in short swords after gained weapon proficeincys with the mage class. call it a bug, but it happened. caught me off gaurd too.

That's so strange. It didn't mysteriously happen after you'd been randomly clicking in some program like shadow keeper did it?

j/k

what are the chances of u sneaking behind someone while holding a halbred? even more, what are the chances of hidding in shadows with a halbred?

Well the game engine can't duplicate every aspect of the real world like a PnP DM could...its one of those things that seems strange in BG games, like people in full plate running as fast as someone wearing leather armour. Or the fact that everyone walks everywhere, and you can swing a two handed sword in close combat and not slice everyone to bits.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:20 pm

Originally posted by kopywrite

Or the fact that everyone walks everywhere, and you can swing a two handed sword in close combat and not slice everyone to bits.

Yeah that has made me laugh a couple of times. Using the wand of monster summoning and getting the gnolls could mean that you have 10 or so people hacking away with big twohanded weapons in a narrow corridor... imagine that!!

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:24 pm

Originally posted by kopywrite
... and you can swing a two handed sword in close combat and not slice everyone to bits.

This probably has something to do with the fact that everyone's running around in full plate at light speed.

But at least a good F/T can backstab everyone to bits if the creature in questions has at least slight resemblance with humans. Just ask those Efreetis guarding King Strohm's tomb for example ... but wait, they can't answer you anymore .