NPC's you wouls have liked to meet.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:36 pm

Unusual to see Georgeous outside of SYM.

Anyway, IMO backstabbing is not evil, it is merely sneaky. It's like the debate over whether using the Ring of Gaxx is evil or not there was a while ago. Some people said that because the Ring of Gaxx was made from the souls of good archmagi and was an item that radiated evil, using it was evil. Others said that if it was there anyway you might as well use it for good, it's not like you caused it to be made.

Gorgan · Post by **Gorgan** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 10:58 pm

I wanted to see some more exotic classes. Like more specific ones. There was no monk npc's or swashbucklers. That is one point i disliked about the game. And i know some people are gonna flame me for this but i felt like the interaction with the npcs were so staged. They didnt feel real, for example the interaction with aerie was so gay. How could someone be so emotional about something like that. If she wanted her wings back im sure she could of had some grand sorceror make her a synthetic pair. Se never asked to do something like that as far as i know.

Gorgan · Post by **Gorgan** » Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:04 pm

I think of backstabbing as just another way to get rid of someone in my way. Its no more evil then slicing your enemy in to peices. If you ask me its a more discreet way, that is less messy, to kill your enemy. From a roleplaying aspect your not gonna frag (destroy into little pieces) someone if you backstab. Thats one thing Baldurs gate 2 should of added. they should of put some backstabbing variable in the game to keep the bodies from exploding when backstabbing. It would give me a more realistic game experience

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:12 am

Ok, here's my example, then:
Two policemen.
They have to keep guns, and they're supposed to use them
against bad guys.
The first one, loads the weapon with normal bullets, that of course
can kill.
The second policeman, loads the weapon with EXPLOSIVE bullets.

Now don't you think the intent to KILL of the second policeman
is a bit too strong??

By the way Littiz - Italy deserved to lose - South Korea were better than them.
Go England!

We had more occasions though.. ok, no need to argue, we played bad.
The point is, our golden goal was regular, so we had to pass the turn.
THIS, is the Truth
end of off-topic

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 1:16 am

@Littiz

A bad example of your part since arresting someone isn't an alternative in BG2. And what makes stabbing someone four times to death better than backstabbing him once to death? No intent to kill if you stab him several times?

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 2:17 am

Just to get people back on the topic.
What Kind of NPC's would you have liked to meet?

So far some people have agreed on the good rouge idea (swashbackler), and also a monk.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 2:32 am

As an expanded character with lots of dialogue, Shar-Teel might have been an interesting character in BG2. I don't know if I would have liked her, but she could have been an interesting character, and definitely challenging.

Onyx · Post by **Onyx** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:03 am

Shar - Teel, evil
Korgan, evil
what a team!!!

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:12 am

With expanded dialogue, any of the BG characters would have been great, Bioware did such a beautiful job with the npcs and the results I'm sure would have been fantastic.

With regard to non BG characters, mods have filled the sorcerer gap and the fighter/mage gap...maybe some more evil characters such as an assassin that Aran 'lends' to your group. Or maybe a wizard slayer who's been tracking Irenicus...maybe a good dwarf character who is seeking to reconstruct the holiest of dwarven artifacts Crom Faeyr...

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:50 am

Of course, the game simplifies a lot, so again it's a matter of roleplaying.

I don't like my thieves go backstabbing people, as I said, I have the impression of a "too intentional" kill.
About the NPCs, well, a Swashbuckler NOT YET dualled to mage would be good, so you can decide

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:18 pm

Originally posted by kopywrite
I never knew that about Valygar...what did the dialogue say?

Wasn't the Haer'Dalis/Aerie thing going to be part of a female romance at one point too?

There's not much to say about the aborted Valygar romance in Throne of Bhaal. There's a Global Variable called "ValygarRomanceActive" in the scripts, but it has no effect on the game. I tried to find a few lines of dialogue in the dialogue file, but I could only find one. See the spoiler below, if you wish. (Although if you haven't already played Throne of Bhaal, I would advise you not to read it!)

As for the Haer'Dalis/Aerie romance, it's already a love triangle if a male main character is romancing Aerie. IMHO, if Haer'Dalis tried to romance a female main character, Aerie would rebuff Haer'Dalis immediately, so there would be no love triangle.

SPOILER

In Throne of Bhaal, a ghost appears and torments your party. I'd rather not be any more specific than that, because it's cool, and I don't want to spoil it any further. If the Valygar romance were active, the ghost would accuse your main character of causing Valygar pain, to which Valygar would reply, "She hasn't caused me any pain. Quite the contrary." Originally, there was actually supposed to be a cut-scene involving him at that point (probably involving his parents or Lavok, I would guess), but it was not included in the game.

Like I said, I think it's enough proof that Bioware originally tried to create a Valygar romance for Throne of Bhaal. And I for one would have welcomed it!

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:33 pm

Originally posted by Aqua-chan
Coran didn't die in my game. Somehow, I managed to save him before those wolves chewed him up.

Did you actually manage that on your first try, without reloading? If so, I congratulate you!

Judging from the way that Coran was made (AC -1, but only 27 hit points), I don't think you're supposed to be able to save him from the pack of werewolves that all attack him at once. But in the unlikely event that you succeed in saving him, he does have dialogue for that contingency.

I can think of two fairly easy ways to save him. 1) Pick off most of the werewolves while Lanfear is still covered with the "fog of war" (or whatever you want to call it) and can't start the dialogue. Archers work wonders. Then it won't be so difficult to defend Coran. 2) Have a Mage begin casting Time Stop before Lanfear's dialogue begins, and have your strongest Fighter move up next to Coran to expose all of the werewolves and protect Coran. When the Time Stop takes effect, have your Mage kill all of the werewolves (the usual way--Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, Dragon's Breath, Flame Arrows, Death spells, or whatever).

You can also try casting Otiluke's Resilient Sphere on Coran, but I've never managed to pull it off.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:44 pm

Originally posted by VonDondu
Like I said, I think it's enough proof that Bioware originally tried to create a Valygar romance for Throne of Bhaal. And I for one would have welcomed it!

I agree! From what I gather somebody is actually working on a Valygar romance.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:48 pm

Originally posted by dragon wench

I agree! From what I gather somebody is actually working on a Valygar romance.

Is *that* why he's so quiet? Perhaps when they cut out the romance dialoques, they accidently (or intentionally) hacked out his civilian ones as well. Hmm, I wonder...

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 6:51 pm

Hmmmm...Valygar talks a lot about magic use to my NPC...... but after the Planar sphere quest he begins to subside in his commentary.....

Snoop Dogg · Post by **Snoop Dogg** » Wed Jun 19, 2002 8:02 pm

Originally posted by Littiz
Two policemen.
They have to keep guns, and they're supposed to use them
against bad guys.
The first one, loads the weapon with normal bullets, that of course
can kill.
The second policeman, loads the weapon with EXPLOSIVE bullets.

Personally, I think that if you manage to kill someone by a swift blow to their vitals, in many ways that can be less evil then someone who would capture them and torture them to death or by hacking off a limb at a time, it would certainly be less painful and more humane.

With the policemen example just imagine the policemen where soldiers protecting their country that was being invaded by evil tyrants. IMO trying to be more effective at combat does not mean you are more evil, being extra-efficient at killing certain people could save the lives of many more innocents

Don't know if any of my argument made snese but that was just my 2c worth...

Snoop

Malakian · Post by **Malakian** » Sat Jun 29, 2002 7:40 pm

I agree, a swashbuckler with rapiers found in Brynnlaw would be very good, too bad you have to wait that long to get him though, possibly in the docks of Athkatla? A barbarian might be welcome, I think they should have added a mountain area to the game, you would find him there.