Will I ever get some "free time" to do side quests? (spoilers inside)
- Duke of Earl
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Will I ever get some "free time" to do side quests? (spoilers inside)
I have not gotten farther in the game than returning from the Underdark, and I am wondering if the main plot will ever give me a chance to complete some side quests.
In Chapters II and III, I have to hurry off to rescue Imoen; once I return to the mainland, I have to hurry to catch Irenicus and get my soul back before I am consumed by the essence of Bhaal. Soooo... will I ever get to a point where I have no really pressing business to attend to? For example, is it possible to complete the SoA storyline, but hold off on heading south and starting the ToB story?
Please don't spoil me too much; a simple yes/no would be best...
Thanks!
Phil
In Chapters II and III, I have to hurry off to rescue Imoen; once I return to the mainland, I have to hurry to catch Irenicus and get my soul back before I am consumed by the essence of Bhaal. Soooo... will I ever get to a point where I have no really pressing business to attend to? For example, is it possible to complete the SoA storyline, but hold off on heading south and starting the ToB story?
Please don't spoil me too much; a simple yes/no would be best...
Thanks!
Phil
Q: Will you ever be able to deviate from the critical path to do a few side-quests?
A: Yes.
That's the short answer. Now here's the long answer.
There are few time restrictions in the game. For the most part, you can do side-quests whenever you feel like it. From a role-playing point of view, you might feel that the critical path is urgent (that's how I always feel), but from a practical standpoint, the game will not penalize you for running off and doing side-quests. The only exceptions are timed events. For example, if an NPC wants you to go to an area, the NPC will be very unhappy if you don't do it in a timely manner. But timers are mainly associated with side-quests, not the critical path. For example, I don't think the main character will die if you wait too long to get his soul back. I don't think it matters whether it takes you 10 days or 100 days. You're supposed to feel like it's hanging over your head, but the game won't kill your character for playing the game your own way.
If you're talking about going to Watcher's Keep (which is a major side-quest) before you finish Shadows of Amn, you can do that if you want to. There's really no good time to do it from a role-playing standpoint, because it bears no relation to the main storyline. But if there's no good time to do it, that means that you can do it at any time. See? There's no particular time when you need to do it, and there's no particular time when you shouldn't do it. You can either go to Watcher's Keep before you finish Shadows of Amn, or you can make time for it sometime while you're playing Throne of Bhaal (which begins right after you finish Shadows of Amn). But you do have to finish Shadows of Amn before you can start Throne of Bhaal, if that's what you were asking.
In one sense, there will never be a time when your character is not in danger and does not have urgent business to attend to. I can't speak for Sabre, but I think that's what he meant when he said, "No." But from a practical standpoint, the critical path can wait.
A: Yes.
That's the short answer. Now here's the long answer.
There are few time restrictions in the game. For the most part, you can do side-quests whenever you feel like it. From a role-playing point of view, you might feel that the critical path is urgent (that's how I always feel), but from a practical standpoint, the game will not penalize you for running off and doing side-quests. The only exceptions are timed events. For example, if an NPC wants you to go to an area, the NPC will be very unhappy if you don't do it in a timely manner. But timers are mainly associated with side-quests, not the critical path. For example, I don't think the main character will die if you wait too long to get his soul back. I don't think it matters whether it takes you 10 days or 100 days. You're supposed to feel like it's hanging over your head, but the game won't kill your character for playing the game your own way.
If you're talking about going to Watcher's Keep (which is a major side-quest) before you finish Shadows of Amn, you can do that if you want to. There's really no good time to do it from a role-playing standpoint, because it bears no relation to the main storyline. But if there's no good time to do it, that means that you can do it at any time. See? There's no particular time when you need to do it, and there's no particular time when you shouldn't do it. You can either go to Watcher's Keep before you finish Shadows of Amn, or you can make time for it sometime while you're playing Throne of Bhaal (which begins right after you finish Shadows of Amn). But you do have to finish Shadows of Amn before you can start Throne of Bhaal, if that's what you were asking.
In one sense, there will never be a time when your character is not in danger and does not have urgent business to attend to. I can't speak for Sabre, but I think that's what he meant when he said, "No." But from a practical standpoint, the critical path can wait.
I was speaking from an extreme roleplaying point of view. You'll always have pressing business to attend to in the game at any given time, so you're going to have to either follow them or go off and do side quests. Also, when you've completed the SoA storyline, you're instantly transfer to ToB, so there is no way to hold that off either.
Agreed, from a role playing pov, you'd want to rescue Imoen as quickly as you can...sadly the game doesn't put a time restriction on this as its possible to wait months before fetching her. A bit of a cop out IMO.Originally posted by Sabre
I was speaking from an extreme roleplaying point of view. You'll always have pressing business to attend to in the game at any given time
- Duke of Earl
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I was speaking from a roleplaying perspective as well.
Damn. I suppose the game designers expect us to not care about roleplaying... ah well, I'll just have to try to forget that my soul is in danger while I go adventuring-- or else play an evil character (who doesn't care about rescuing Imoen).
Thanks for the info, anyway.
Phil
Damn. I suppose the game designers expect us to not care about roleplaying... ah well, I'll just have to try to forget that my soul is in danger while I go adventuring-- or else play an evil character (who doesn't care about rescuing Imoen).
Thanks for the info, anyway.
Phil
- serjeLeBlade
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The problem with the BG series, is that it encourages role-playing but there's no dm to help players in it.
A good dm would want to help you to have fun while doing the roleplayng thing correctly.
Let this bard try to answer duke's questions in a good-dungeon-master way...
Ok, side quest may seem meaningless. You have to save Imoen. Immediately! No doubt about that.
And then, you have to rescue your soul!
(Pretty obvious, who'd want to live without a soul while doing side-quest? Not even Jon Irenicus, I guess).
But now the trick comes....
let's give a meaning to apparently-meaningless side-quests.
That's a fact you should not ignore my hero, you will save no-one (not Imoen, not your soul, not the realms, nothing) if you end up dead, and even worse if you bring you best friends to die with you while facing an opponent that's just too strong.
And your opponent is obviouly enormously stronger than you are at the beginning of the game.
So, it's very good roleplaying if you feel you have to save Imoen; but is even better roleplaying to feel you don't stand a chance against Irenicus without more powers (ie experience) and better equipment. The best equipment in the world. You are Imoen last chance and you will not waste it just going there and allowing Irenicus to kill you like he indeed could have done before if he just wanted to.
That's why in my opinion you could be supposed to go around looking for.... experience and good gear, is not that what side-quests are alla about?
I hope have said something useful...
Or nothing too silly at least!
Thanks everyone for listening
A good dm would want to help you to have fun while doing the roleplayng thing correctly.
Let this bard try to answer duke's questions in a good-dungeon-master way...
Ok, side quest may seem meaningless. You have to save Imoen. Immediately! No doubt about that.
And then, you have to rescue your soul!
(Pretty obvious, who'd want to live without a soul while doing side-quest? Not even Jon Irenicus, I guess).
But now the trick comes....
let's give a meaning to apparently-meaningless side-quests.
That's a fact you should not ignore my hero, you will save no-one (not Imoen, not your soul, not the realms, nothing) if you end up dead, and even worse if you bring you best friends to die with you while facing an opponent that's just too strong.
And your opponent is obviouly enormously stronger than you are at the beginning of the game.
So, it's very good roleplaying if you feel you have to save Imoen; but is even better roleplaying to feel you don't stand a chance against Irenicus without more powers (ie experience) and better equipment. The best equipment in the world. You are Imoen last chance and you will not waste it just going there and allowing Irenicus to kill you like he indeed could have done before if he just wanted to.
That's why in my opinion you could be supposed to go around looking for.... experience and good gear, is not that what side-quests are alla about?
I hope have said something useful...
Or nothing too silly at least!
Thanks everyone for listening
Where we came from, we don't know
Where we're going.... (even worse)
And about who we could be, we actually have trouble in clearly defining the term "to be" in the first place...
Where we're going.... (even worse)
And about who we could be, we actually have trouble in clearly defining the term "to be" in the first place...
- fable
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As I see it, if you're looking for roleplaying justification on side quests, fix up a little dialog in your mind between your extant party members. Envision a campfire at night. Raise the question of what to do, next, based on the information you have at hand:
Keldorn: The child has told us of matters of import in the Umar Hills. It is my sworn duty to uphold the Good, and we must...
Korgan: Aye, *yur* good, *yur* duty, you oversized heap o' steamin' sheepballs! Now the way *I* hear it, if you canna sell slaves, then there's gud money to be made in freein' em, so let's look to yon Copper Coronet and deal with those prissy slaveowners, says I!
....and so forth. You get the idea. It's easy to construct legitimate reasons for takings side trips into various quests, depending upon what your party members urge.
Keldorn: The child has told us of matters of import in the Umar Hills. It is my sworn duty to uphold the Good, and we must...
Korgan: Aye, *yur* good, *yur* duty, you oversized heap o' steamin' sheepballs! Now the way *I* hear it, if you canna sell slaves, then there's gud money to be made in freein' em, so let's look to yon Copper Coronet and deal with those prissy slaveowners, says I!
....and so forth. You get the idea. It's easy to construct legitimate reasons for takings side trips into various quests, depending upon what your party members urge.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.
- Duke of Earl
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- JackOfClubs
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A Heretic's Point of View
I think sergeLeBlade and fable give reasonable justifications for side quests that have a high correlation with what BioWare was evidently thinking when they wrote the plot.
I have never really bought into the whole theology of the Forgotten Realms so, for what it is worth, here is my take on the recent events in Baldur's Gate and Athkatla and how the game can be played from a good perspective.
**Begin Roleplaying Segment
First some background:
The entire problem centers around the myth that during the Time of Troubles, a person representing himself as a deity went around impregnating females of various races. Note however that the offspring are universally recognized as belonging to the race of the mother. But secondly, and more important, the whole logic that the God of Murder was afraid of dying is ludicrous. Who killed him, the God of Accidental Death? So I question, on purely logical grounds, the idea that I am the offspring of this or any other god.
Now, whether or not you wish to believe this crazy, indeed blasphemous, legend is your business. But the fact remains that the only evidence I have that it applies to me is the testimony of one Sarevok who was clearly mad. There may be some evidence that Gorion believed at least part of this story, but it is not conclusive. If even the wise Alaundo could fall for the crazy Bhaalspawn myth, I am willing to believe that Gorion may have been sincerely deluded as well. So the whole conflict that culminated in the events in Baldur's Gate may well have been brought on by the tortured delusions of a single megalomaniac.
Unfortunately, having defeated him in a very spectacular combat has only given fuel to the legend that I am indeed a child of Bhaal. Never mind that everyone I encounter remarks on the fact that I don't fit the profile. Even Sarevok's confidante and former lover, Tamoko, bears witness that we are very different spiritually, where we should be nearly identical if our souls indeed derive from the god in question.
Enter Jon Irenicus, another power-mad tyrant with an admittedly formdiable command of the magic arts. He has clearly been experimenting with some very powerful death magic, but the only concrete result early on is the serious psychological trauma he has induced in Imoen. Hardly evidence of his spiritual objectivity.
When he encounters the Cowled Wizards, he clearly has them outmatched but he consents to surrender if they will take Imoen as well. Is this rational? More evidence of his complete psychotic break with reality, I say.
**Pause Playing Segment
I have played the game at this point on the assumption that I have to make enough money to rescue Imoen, but things just keep getting in the way. In order to make money one needs to hire oneself out to the various side quests, but in order to complete those quests without getting killed the proper equipment must be purchased. This is similar to sergeLeBlade's take on the problem. If you keep spending money, you never have the required fee for Galen (or Bodhi) so you just have to go on one more quest, and then one more...
However, I prefer to get the money as soon as possible (and side with Bodhi so that both evil empires can be snuffed out) and proceed as noted below.
**Resume Roleplaying Segment
However, the fact of Imoen's capture must be dealt with. Having gathered the required fee by helping Renal Bloodscalp with his guild problems, I make my way to Spellhold only to be captured by Irenicus. He performs another of his crazy experiments on me, claiming that he has stolen my soul, but this can be interpreted as just another of his theologically suspect delusions.
The only actual result that I can observe is that he has caused some sort of involuntary polymorphing to occur. Could it be that he has accidentally inflicted me with a particularly virulent form of lycanthropy? Like lycanthropy, I eventually gain control over it.
My scepticism is further supported by the fact that Imoen, who has undergone the same procedure, does not have the same symptoms. Irenicus is incapable of explaining this discrepancy and resorts to a very implausible notion that it is due to her cheerful innocence, or her lack of awareness of her true Bhaal-nature. Bah. I have never accepted that premise so I am no more "aware" of my Bhaal-nature than she.
**Pause Playing Segment
You will note that at this point I am theologicall and ethically free to ignore Bodhi and Irenicus and do any side-quests I care to. Since I reject the notion that either I or Imoen had a Bhaal-essence to begin with, I am under no compulsion to attempt to "restore" either of our souls. Having rescued Imoen, I have discharged my sole ethical responsibility. Every quest that was available in Ch 2 is still available in Ch 6 except the Renal Bloodscalp one mentioned above.
**Resume Roleplaying Segment
After defeating Irenicus at the tree of life, he evidently casts a final spell that draws me into hell along with him. (Again note that Imoen did not have a similar problem with Bodhi and her stolen "soul".)
My experience in the nether plane adds some further confirmation of my claim. Although the demons all call me child of Bhaal -- and I should believe the testimony of demons? Clearly just another ploy to snare me into their hellish torment -- they are all forced to admit that my behavior is not what they would expect from one so tainted.
When I pass all of their tests, I face Irenicus and he turns into the very creature whose form he has inflicted on me. Now *his* explanation would be that he got the ability from my stolen essence, but isn't it equally plausible that I got it from his tampering? The only observable fact is that I was fine before he started his mumbo-jumbo and I really have no way of knowing what his true capabilities were. Clearly his magic use has always been suspiciously atypical of the classic mage and even sorcerors can't crank out the spells at the rate he did in the battle with the Cowled Wizards. My conclusion is that he has found a way of transferring his curse to me and that the whole Bhaal-spawn thing is utterly without foundation.
**End Roleplaying
I have not played through the Throne of Bhaal expansion so I imagine some creative way will have to be devised to account for the events there. However, madness and human evil go a long way toward explaining just about every interesting conflict, so I suspect it would not be too difficult for those so inclined.
This disourse was somewhat longer than I anticipated. I hope I haven't bored anyone.
I think sergeLeBlade and fable give reasonable justifications for side quests that have a high correlation with what BioWare was evidently thinking when they wrote the plot.
I have never really bought into the whole theology of the Forgotten Realms so, for what it is worth, here is my take on the recent events in Baldur's Gate and Athkatla and how the game can be played from a good perspective.
**Begin Roleplaying Segment
First some background:
The entire problem centers around the myth that during the Time of Troubles, a person representing himself as a deity went around impregnating females of various races. Note however that the offspring are universally recognized as belonging to the race of the mother. But secondly, and more important, the whole logic that the God of Murder was afraid of dying is ludicrous. Who killed him, the God of Accidental Death? So I question, on purely logical grounds, the idea that I am the offspring of this or any other god.
Now, whether or not you wish to believe this crazy, indeed blasphemous, legend is your business. But the fact remains that the only evidence I have that it applies to me is the testimony of one Sarevok who was clearly mad. There may be some evidence that Gorion believed at least part of this story, but it is not conclusive. If even the wise Alaundo could fall for the crazy Bhaalspawn myth, I am willing to believe that Gorion may have been sincerely deluded as well. So the whole conflict that culminated in the events in Baldur's Gate may well have been brought on by the tortured delusions of a single megalomaniac.
Unfortunately, having defeated him in a very spectacular combat has only given fuel to the legend that I am indeed a child of Bhaal. Never mind that everyone I encounter remarks on the fact that I don't fit the profile. Even Sarevok's confidante and former lover, Tamoko, bears witness that we are very different spiritually, where we should be nearly identical if our souls indeed derive from the god in question.
Enter Jon Irenicus, another power-mad tyrant with an admittedly formdiable command of the magic arts. He has clearly been experimenting with some very powerful death magic, but the only concrete result early on is the serious psychological trauma he has induced in Imoen. Hardly evidence of his spiritual objectivity.
When he encounters the Cowled Wizards, he clearly has them outmatched but he consents to surrender if they will take Imoen as well. Is this rational? More evidence of his complete psychotic break with reality, I say.
**Pause Playing Segment
I have played the game at this point on the assumption that I have to make enough money to rescue Imoen, but things just keep getting in the way. In order to make money one needs to hire oneself out to the various side quests, but in order to complete those quests without getting killed the proper equipment must be purchased. This is similar to sergeLeBlade's take on the problem. If you keep spending money, you never have the required fee for Galen (or Bodhi) so you just have to go on one more quest, and then one more...
However, I prefer to get the money as soon as possible (and side with Bodhi so that both evil empires can be snuffed out) and proceed as noted below.
**Resume Roleplaying Segment
However, the fact of Imoen's capture must be dealt with. Having gathered the required fee by helping Renal Bloodscalp with his guild problems, I make my way to Spellhold only to be captured by Irenicus. He performs another of his crazy experiments on me, claiming that he has stolen my soul, but this can be interpreted as just another of his theologically suspect delusions.
The only actual result that I can observe is that he has caused some sort of involuntary polymorphing to occur. Could it be that he has accidentally inflicted me with a particularly virulent form of lycanthropy? Like lycanthropy, I eventually gain control over it.
My scepticism is further supported by the fact that Imoen, who has undergone the same procedure, does not have the same symptoms. Irenicus is incapable of explaining this discrepancy and resorts to a very implausible notion that it is due to her cheerful innocence, or her lack of awareness of her true Bhaal-nature. Bah. I have never accepted that premise so I am no more "aware" of my Bhaal-nature than she.
**Pause Playing Segment
You will note that at this point I am theologicall and ethically free to ignore Bodhi and Irenicus and do any side-quests I care to. Since I reject the notion that either I or Imoen had a Bhaal-essence to begin with, I am under no compulsion to attempt to "restore" either of our souls. Having rescued Imoen, I have discharged my sole ethical responsibility. Every quest that was available in Ch 2 is still available in Ch 6 except the Renal Bloodscalp one mentioned above.
**Resume Roleplaying Segment
After defeating Irenicus at the tree of life, he evidently casts a final spell that draws me into hell along with him. (Again note that Imoen did not have a similar problem with Bodhi and her stolen "soul".)
My experience in the nether plane adds some further confirmation of my claim. Although the demons all call me child of Bhaal -- and I should believe the testimony of demons? Clearly just another ploy to snare me into their hellish torment -- they are all forced to admit that my behavior is not what they would expect from one so tainted.
When I pass all of their tests, I face Irenicus and he turns into the very creature whose form he has inflicted on me. Now *his* explanation would be that he got the ability from my stolen essence, but isn't it equally plausible that I got it from his tampering? The only observable fact is that I was fine before he started his mumbo-jumbo and I really have no way of knowing what his true capabilities were. Clearly his magic use has always been suspiciously atypical of the classic mage and even sorcerors can't crank out the spells at the rate he did in the battle with the Cowled Wizards. My conclusion is that he has found a way of transferring his curse to me and that the whole Bhaal-spawn thing is utterly without foundation.
**End Roleplaying
I have not played through the Throne of Bhaal expansion so I imagine some creative way will have to be devised to account for the events there. However, madness and human evil go a long way toward explaining just about every interesting conflict, so I suspect it would not be too difficult for those so inclined.
This disourse was somewhat longer than I anticipated. I hope I haven't bored anyone.
Resistance to Tyrants is Service to God.
- serjeLeBlade
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x JackofClubs:
Boring? Your post boring? No one dare state that within my hearing range!!!
Your point of view of the whole story in interesting and believable.
That could be the truth, especially if you prove yourself capable to cling to this version of the truth until the ending... the very ending I mean... (TOB).
Imho (and only imho), your personal opinion about the truth in all the BG saga BECOMES the truth, if you get to the end and survive. One way or another.
Should I really write "spoiler" anywhere?
Boring? Your post boring? No one dare state that within my hearing range!!!
Your point of view of the whole story in interesting and believable.
That could be the truth, especially if you prove yourself capable to cling to this version of the truth until the ending... the very ending I mean... (TOB).
Imho (and only imho), your personal opinion about the truth in all the BG saga BECOMES the truth, if you get to the end and survive. One way or another.
Should I really write "spoiler" anywhere?
Where we came from, we don't know
Where we're going.... (even worse)
And about who we could be, we actually have trouble in clearly defining the term "to be" in the first place...
Where we're going.... (even worse)
And about who we could be, we actually have trouble in clearly defining the term "to be" in the first place...
- fable
- Posts: 30676
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2001 12:00 pm
- Location: The sun, the moon, and the stars.
- Contact:
Good post, @JackofClubs. I hope we'll hear more of you. You may want to visit the SYM (Speak Your Mind) folder, as well, for non-game related matters--and that invitation goes out to everyone else, too.
@Duke of Earl, my point is that when you're leading your group, they aren't NWN's henchmen; and depending upon the persona you've created, that group can be anything from fixated on the central quest to strongly interested in gathering any friends, experience, and items that will lend aid along the way. In addition, you can always see your leader as primus inter pares--first among equals--who not only seeks the opinions of others, but allows themselves to be ruled or at least swayed by group views. Surely any party with the likes of Keldorn, Korgan, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Anomen, Edwin and/or Mazzy is going to get a constant earful about where to go and what to do, next. Whether you choose to act on all this depends on the leader you create.
@Duke of Earl, my point is that when you're leading your group, they aren't NWN's henchmen; and depending upon the persona you've created, that group can be anything from fixated on the central quest to strongly interested in gathering any friends, experience, and items that will lend aid along the way. In addition, you can always see your leader as primus inter pares--first among equals--who not only seeks the opinions of others, but allows themselves to be ruled or at least swayed by group views. Surely any party with the likes of Keldorn, Korgan, Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Anomen, Edwin and/or Mazzy is going to get a constant earful about where to go and what to do, next. Whether you choose to act on all this depends on the leader you create.
To the Righteous belong the fruits of violent victory. The rest of us will have to settle for warm friends, warm lovers, and a wink from a quietly supportive universe.