World Cup 2002

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:20 am

lolitz: I think you need to accept that Italy is out, bad luck or not

Defensive tactics by teams are killing the game look at Italy,sweden and sometimes england ...it wont work.
...bugger off SVEN!!!

The dangerous sides left in the WC are all attacking

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:23 am

USA/Germany

Another referee oversight. Fritz' hand ball on the German goal-line stops ball crossing over, no penalty awarded to USA as referee did not see incident...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:26 am

Originally posted by Silur
When it comes to diving, I'm still convinced Totti dived. He is however an angel compared to Rivaldo today. The ref should have nailed him to the goal post so he could have done his jesus impersonation.. I guess faking for a penalty is worse than playing "death of a dandy" all over the rest of the field.

To be honest if you watch enough European football this type of activity is not uncommon, it is in fact the norm. So seeing Rivaldo attempting to influence the ref in this way wasn't the surprising to me.

@Everyone, could we keep this civil please.

Silur · Post by **Silur** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:34 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

To be honest if you watch enough European football this type of activity is not uncommon, it is in fact the norm. So seeing Rivaldo attempting to influence the ref in this way wasn't the surprising to me.

So much the worse. Since Fifa has specifically gone out and stated that the dives have to go and that the referees should strike down on such behaviour, one would wish they started sending people off the field until they stopped permanently. I don't care if it ends up being goalie vs goalie!

Personally, the dives and the jersey pullings are ticking me off, and I'm starting to loose interest... zzzzz

Silur · Post by **Silur** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:40 am

Originally posted by Yshania
USA/Germany

Another referee oversight. Fritz' hand ball on the German goal-line stops ball crossing over, no penalty awarded to USA as referee did not see incident...

I'm not so sure. I think it's not a foul to get the ball on your hand as long as you kept your arm close to the body and don't deliberately stop the ball. The German player even pulls the arm back behind him.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:40 am

Originally posted by Silur
So much the worse. Since Fifa has specifically gone out and stated that the dives have to go and that the referees should strike down on such behaviour, one would wish they started sending people off the field until they stopped permanently. I don't care if it ends up being goalie vs goalie!

The fact is that Fifa issues a directive to the ref's and they stick to it for about 1 match, realise it can't work in a game and attempt to revert to the common sense approach...something Fifa has a problem with

The game actually ends up a draw if there are more than 5 players sent off for each side

Personally, the dives and the jersey pullings are ticking me off, and I'm starting to loose interest... zzzzz

I know what you mean, the problem however doesnt' lie with the refs, it is the players themselves. It is how they are brought up to play and there is very little that will be done in the next ten years to kerb the problem. Shirt pulling has always been part of the game. What few people realise is how absolutely rough the Brazilian league is, they pull shirts they do two footed challenges, it is just nasty. When one watches the WC realise it doesn't directly reflect the league that the players come from, all but 3 players in that Brazil side play abroad somewhere.

Silur · Post by **Silur** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:00 am

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
The fact is that Fifa issues a directive to the ref's and they stick to it for about 1 match, realise it can't work in a game and attempt to revert to the common sense approach...something Fifa has a problem with The game actually ends up a draw if there are more than 5 players sent off for each side
[/b]

So I guess it's money and TV that ruin the game (as usual...). They can't take having two or three games ruined by referees following Fifas directives. I think that if you persistently and consistently implement a rule, the players would adapt after just a few games and the rest of the world would hear about it. Unfortunately those few games early on would be complete ****.

I know what you mean, the problem however doesnt' lie with the refs, it is the players themselves. It is how they are brought up to play and there is very little that will be done in the next ten years to kerb the problem. Shirt pulling has always been part of the game. What few people realise is how absolutely rough the Brazilian league is, they pull shirts they do two footed challenges, it is just nasty. When one watches the WC realise it doesn't directly reflect the league that the players come from, all but 3 players in that Brazil side play abroad somewhere.

Doesn't surprise me. Diving has always been popular in South American football. Doesn't make it any better though... It still ruins the game for me. Someone suggested spandex clothing for the players to prevent shirt pullings. That would please some female viewers I know of, and would probably be a boost for womens football too

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:16 am

Originally posted by Silur
So I guess it's money and TV that ruin the game (as usual...). They can't take having two or three games ruined by referees following Fifas directives. I think that if you persistently and consistently implement a rule, the players would adapt after just a few games and the rest of the world would hear about it. Unfortunately those few games early on would be complete ****.

Yep, every act in the game is televised so the ref is under increasing pressure so he ends up making gafs or poor decisions because he is overly worried about the reaction, heck some refs have been killed for making a decision

I am not so sure, players tend to act like spoiled and abusive children, i don't think they would accept being told what to do by the establishment (just my opinion *shrug*)

Originally posted by Silur
Doesn't surprise me. Diving has always been popular in South American football. Doesn't make it any better though... It still ruins the game for me. Someone suggested spandex clothing for the players to prevent shirt pullings. That would please some female viewers I know of, and would probably be a boost for womens football too

Oh it does, but there is a certain comedic value sometimes, me and my brother give them style points, most people score a 4 but sometimes, once in a while...they get a six!

That is actually a good idea, Italy were wearing that kind of thing this year and it certainly stopped a lot of the shirt pulling in the games i saw them play in.

Trym · Post by **Trym** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:13 am

@ Littitz

Do you remember the last-of-16-round 1994, Italy vs. Spain?
87th minute, score 1:1. Tassotti brutally fouls Louis Enrique in the penalty area, breaking his nose. It shoud have been a red card for Tassotti and a penalty for Spain. But the ref didn't see it. 88th minute, direct counterthrust: Italy scores the 2:1, thereby winning the match.

What about THAT?

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:57 am

Originally posted by Silur

I'm not so sure. I think it's not a foul to get the ball on your hand as long as you kept your arm close to the body and don't deliberately stop the ball. The German player even pulls the arm back behind him.

That is correct - if he can't avoid it, there isn't actually a foul there - but many times they are called as such anyway.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 11:35 am

@Silur: as I said, PLAYERS here behave correctly between them.
After all they change team every season...
Believe it or not, Ahn's direct attack against other players
was something quite new.
If you want to defend him somehow, let's say he was just trying to
improve his team's morale.
I didn't imagine those declarations, they come from something
like the FIFA commission of referee or something like that.
Ecuadorians wanted a defense for Moreno, and Fifa replyed
that he committed indeed some mistakes, like Totti's espulsion.

RAI is wrong of course in this matter, but as I said something
good may come, as a new system.
I sincerily hope so. I don't like this system, and I'm honest,
as I keep saying it since WAY before this world cup.

I agree with those who say defensive football doesn't work.
Better to say, NOW it doesn't work, Trapattoni won A LOT with
his style in the past.
But times have changed, and he hasn't, alas!

Diving is very annoying, I hate it as well.
My local team was the victim of a famous diving, Oliveira
was the "actor".
IIRC Collina was directin' the match.
He admitted then that Oliveira acted really good and he
believed in the fault...
Then Fiorentina BUYED Oliveira (stupid them!) and so they
got fouled twice, as since then NO REFEREE ever conceded a penalty
again to Oliveira, even when it was evident!!!

@Trym: I'm not sure it's gone that way, I remember Tassotti's nose
was broken, though he made the fault..
Maybe you're right, it's only that this year the CONCENTRATION of
mistakes against us was way above the average.
We are a polemic people, and the rest followed.
Yet, I'm glad that at the airport people welcomed the team as winner!!

Andy Strawn · Post by **Andy Strawn** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 11:36 am

@Littiz: The Italians always claimed that they've been "robbed" of victory whenever they lost an important match; in the same sense, the French have been "robbed" by Italians on countless occasions (at least they say so.)

The result of the game is irrvocable. What I find distasteful is the barbaric response from the Italians. You've said that Ahn insulted the Italian football, but the apologetic Perugia chairman quite recently admitted that his reaction was induced by the exaggeration of the excited press. In fact if I remember correctly Ahn said he was grateful for two years he spent in Italy. See, that just shows you how much the whole Italian penninsula - people, press, government - is obsessed with soccer in unhealthy way. Italy not only lost a match but its pride as well. Sore losers, sure enough.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:58 pm

In fact, I only said that there were other reason than the goal, for Gaucci.
Yet, I said the he was wrong, and more than this, I said immediatly, and more than once, that he would have changed his mind.
This only proves that I know my people and I know what I'm talkin' about.
We are passionate and maybe exagerate, of course.
But maybe it is just you that live in a too cold and rational place to understand us.
Your loss.

I still think that our elimination was greatly "provoked" (mistakes, bad luck or what you prefer), but, we'll try next time.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:00 pm

Now that school's finally over, and those damn exams are done with. Goddam that science test was hard. I'm going to stay awake and actually stay awake, to watch the Spain game at 2:30 AM. Me and my dad. Guess we should get out the coffee.

I hope South Korea wins. They did well vs. Italy along with those b!@#**** refs, but they are a good team otherwise, not just riding on luck.

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:17 pm

lolit: you seem to have a good grasp of your people. I believe That totti was sent off due to a previous history of diving and the ref gut reaction was 'not again' . I think Italy would have won if they played attacking. 'defense and Italy' are used too frequently together in speech (I think this is very over-rational way of them playing sport or anything)

at99 · Post by **at99** » Fri Jun 21, 2002 8:24 pm

I just spoke to a former national soccer coach who played his football in Britain.

He reckons 'so do I' that England had the game to beat Brazil but they played rubbish. They just had no run or fight in them after first goal.

England had 'half- a dozen' coaches all with tactics. The end result is that they cant run, or do anything creative to win.
They sat back after a goal up 'what for!!!!!!!', brazil did not do this even with 10 .

england was over coached, under attacking and now out!!
Italy, england, sweden should learn better that things will go against you if you let intellectual reasoning stand in the way of performing

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 12:44 am

So whats the deal with the Italian football body threatening to ask for finanical compensation for their treatment from referees. I saw a snippet of this on TV, and are they for real?

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:08 am

South Korea vs Spain

Congratulations! I didn't see the match but well done to them for winning on penalties!

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:18 am

Originally posted by at99
...bugger off SVEN!!!

...so do you really think that England would even be in the World Cup without Sven-Goran Eriksson? He's been the best manager this country has had since Bobby Robson, and I don't think that anyone should even be thinking to get rid of him. And if David Seaman gets made a scapegoat it will be the worst thing to happen to English football since David Beckham's treatment after France '98.

Congratulations to South Korea, I only saw the last 10 minutes of extra time and the penalties due to sleeping

but they took all their penalties with remarkable strength after having run flat out for 2 hours. They deserved to win it from what I saw.

Delacroix · Post by **Delacroix** » Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:32 am

Brazil play well against England. Exceptional game for Ronaldinho "gaucho"(with terrible hair).
England really didn't play a goos football.
I'm only typing now because we were under comemoration

(Isaw the game in a Irish pub(located here)).

Korea X Spain
Korea win because of arbiter mistake, again. Like the game against Italy;
Two goals were nulifyed one of them was a Golden Goal.
Both were legal in my opinion.
Korea is being well favored.