SYM's "Heartbreak Hotel"

[Weasel]

Originally posted by Aegis
Well, hope is gone, my spirit crushed, and my will to do anything depleted. She lead me on, and used me...

Now, if you excuse me, I have some major things to rethink in my life.

Aegis there will be others.

You are just starting your life. Look at this as just a bump in the road of life. There will be more too, but you can't say "This is it, I give up". You must pick yourself up and say "Her loss".

[KidD01]

Originally posted by Aegis
Well, hope is gone, my spirit crushed, and my will to do anything depleted. She lead me on, and used me...

Now, if you excuse me, I have some major things to rethink in my life.

Aegis, FYI the population stats show that female population is bigger than male. So there's a lot of female out there. As Weasel says just look forward and say "It's her loss!" Belive me, mon ami. I've been down that road where I've been used by a woman I have crush on. Just get youself together and move on

[Aegis]

No offense to Weasel, or Kid, but cliche's aren't what I need right now. I'm deeply hurt by her. At first, I thought it was just that she wasn't ready for a relationship, especially one that was long distance. Being used by someone isn't a very fun thing. I'm just worried now becuase I'm not sure I'll be able to look her in the face now.

*Sigh*

I think I might take a bit of a brake from SYM for a bit. Sort out my life.

[C Elegans]

I'm sure Weasel and Kid are only trying to help, but as Aegis says, well-known cliche like expressions seldom helps unhappy people, on the contrary, it often hurts.

@Aegis: I of course don't know what has occured between you and Cait, and in what way she has been using you. However, I don't think I have a single male friend who hasn't been used by girls in a specific way, that is very common. Maybe this is not relevant for you, but I tell the story anyway:

One of my friends was extremly in love with this girl. They were good friends, they even flirted a little, and after some time he decided to explain his feeling towards her. She said she didn't want a relationship, but she wanted to be friends (heard it before?). My friend initially accepted this, but as they continued to be friends, the girl continued to flirt with him, or rather it increased. She also showed signs of jealousy when he spoke positively about other girls. My friend brought up the subject again, but he girl was persistent in not wanting a relationship. Their friendship got closer and closer, she often rang him in the middle of the night and wanted to have long, personal chats. She had problems with her family, and when she was depressed, she would often ask if she may come and sleep in his flat (she lived with her mother, he had a flat of his own). After a couple of years, my friend was sort of stuck in a highly destructive pattern where he acted "therapist" and carer for the girl, and every time he tried to break free from their "friendship" she would intensify the flirting and suggesting a "maybe". It wasn't until he met another girl that he could finally break free from this.

One might ask how this could happen, and how this girl could be so cruel and use my friend like this, playing on his feelings for her to get support and help? Since I've seen this pattern so many times, I have an answer I believe is valid for most such situations.

In today's society, with the gender roles we have, girls are supposed to be pretty and attractive, whereas boys are supposed to take responsibility and be "strong". For many young girls, looking good, being attractive and being loved for this, is the only way to self-confidence. A girl with a less stable self-confidence, will often seek out admireres who can confirm her attractiveness and popularity. It doesn't matter that she's not in love with the boy, being loved and coveted is the important thing to her. Often unconsciously, a friend, a nice guy or other guys she trusts, will be selected as "victims" because they allow the girl to receive attention and confirmation, while she at the same time does not need to fear extended demands from the guy. So the situation is safe for her - she gets what she needs but she doesn't need to risk loosing the confirmation since they are "friends". When she feels she is at risk of loosing the admirerer, she will sometimes increase the element of flirt or do something else that makes the guy feel all hope is not lost. And the double message she sends, is often interpreted by the wishful guy, as a hope for the future.

I have no idea whether you situation holds any similarity to this, Aegis, but if it does, my advice is actually contrary to Kid's and Weasel's: Don't shrug it off. I am sure you can't ignore you feelings right now, and you shouldn't either. Putting bad things behind you and learn from them takes time. One can always run or hide from bad experiences, but that way you will simply have them stored at some dark spot in your mind, and that spot will be vulnerable later on. You need to work through this by thinking about it and acknowledging your own responses. So sorting out your life and taking a break from things that may disturb you is a good idea IMO. Just make sure you don't isolate yourself, speak to your close friends about your ideas and feelings. If you feel very sad and depressed, try to easy on your demands on yourself and focus on things you enjoy, perhaps writing?
You are a strong person Aegis, and very mature. You will come through this, I'm sure, but it will take some time and effort.

*Many hugs*

[Aegis]

@CE: While, I do believe your on to something, I'm not the typical guy sterotype. While maintaining a strong front (I often provide emotional support for friends, and often act as an advisor for their problems), I don't go into the big stereotype (and I'm not say that you said I did ). My problem is this, and I'll tell the whole story, or at least the way I see it.

She came to me three weeks back, saying that her current boyfriend (an ex by the point, actually) had refused to go to her prom with her. We chatted for a bit, I offered my shoulder to cry on, as I often have, until she suggested that I go with her. Now, having had deep feelings for her for three years (we tried going out once, but neither of us were really ready for a relationship, and truth be told, I was a bit of an ass ), I said yes, after thinking about it for a day (the long distance thing, and whether or not I wished to risk doing something that might end up bad, go figure.)

So, for two weeks, because I was unable to get up north to see here (we live two hours away from each other) we spoke over MSN, and the phone, talking about this and that, and some things on a more personal note. When the day came that I was to meet her for the prom, I went up. Being iffy about what we were going as (date or friends) I made sure to keep body contact to a minimum (a hug here or there, and the customary arm-linking stuff) and thats how it went for the evening, and I was fine with it. It wasn't until afterwards when she gave me a drive home (as I can't drive yet) we she proceded to shove her tongue down my throat.

Naturally, as a guy, and having feelings for her, I thought she wanted the next step in our friendship, andtry a relationship. We were together the entire weekend, were she kept staying close to me (body contact was high), and did nothing to dissuede my line of thinking. Anyway, so I head home on sunday, whereupon arriving home, I talk to her again, bringing up the idea of a relationship. She tells me that she;s not sure if she's ready for a longdistance relationship, but said that we would see what would happen during the summer (as I'd be living with my mom, working up north for the summer). So, I was upset about that, but I realized her concerns. After that, we seemed to become a bit distanced.

Anyway, I just found out today, from her brother (a very good friend of mine) that she has apparently been seeing someone else for some time. She knew how I felt and such, and she kept saying "we'll see what happens in the summer" and she kept that hidden from me, which I know is here buisness, but becuase she knew how I felt, and she seemed to really like me while I was around, I felt that it was a little unfair that she never told me the truth. Anyway, that brings us to today, and me back into my depression.

Life is good, ain't it.

[C Elegans]

@Aegis: Thanks for telling the whole story, it makes it so much easier to try to figure out what is going on. (And I know you are not the typical guy stereotype, my anecdote was aimed to show how the female stereotype can influence girls to act in a certain way. The friend I told you about is very far from stereotype too, but like you, he is the type of person that often act as supporter and coucellor to his friends, and such persons often feels "safe" for the girl to "use").

As I see it, there is two alternatives how to interpret her behaviour: Either it's like the girls in my example above, she is using you to get confirmation, she does not love you. She hides the fact that she is seeing somebody else because she wants to keep the confirmation from you as long as possible. (My friends girl did this, she even moved together with a guy and my friend only found out because the other guy once answered the phone and my friend, surprised, asked who he was and the guy said "I live here"...you should have heard the 1000 excuses the girl had for not telling him when he confronted her with this... )
The other alternative is easy to illustrate, just read back in this thread and look at Obsidian's issue, and how people respond to that. Obviously, many people seem to think it's ok to date more than one person without letting them know about each other, until one has decided. May she think so too, even though you have told her your feelings, she hasn't made any committment, just a "maybe after the summer". The possibilites here are endless. There has been some talk about hormones in this thread, and remember girls hormones jump just as much as guys - maybe she feels physically attracted to you, but does not love you or does not know if she does. Maybe she has feelings towards you, but afraid to commit herself or get hurt later. Maybe she just doens't care enough about you to consider you would be hurt by her behaviour....there is no way of knowing. In any case, I think she has let you down, and personally, I would not want a relationship with a person who behaved that way, regardless how much in love I was. It's a question of your opinion and feelings here.

My personal opinion is however that if a person has declared love and wants a relationship with me, I owe this person a honest reply regardless of what I think of him. Hiding that I'm dating somebody else, equals lying IMO, so I would not tolerate that. As I wrote to Obsidian, I don't think lying and cheating on each other is a way to start a relationship. If I were in your situation, I would either avoid the girl and work through the pain and my love to her until it was gone, or I was very tormented with questions of why and how, I would confront her with the fact that I know she is seeing somebody else, tell her my opinion of this and explain my reactions on her behaviour, just to get it out of my system. But I would not, never, consider a relationship.

I understand now why you were reluctant to give up hope earlier, since she in fact gave you a contradictory message - no relationship now, no longdinstance relationship, but maybe later. You must feel both hurt, sad and angry.

This will hurt for a while, perhaps a long while, but the most important thing is to try to keep in mind that not everyone would choose to hurt you like this in the future, so don't loose faith in people.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Originally posted by Aegis
@CE: While, I do believe your on to something, I'm not the typical guy sterotype. While maintaining a strong front (I often provide emotional support for friends, and often act as an advisor for their problems), I don't go into the big stereotype (and I'm not say that you said I did ). My problem is this, and I'll tell the whole story, or at least the way I see it.

She came to me three weeks back, saying that her current boyfriend (an ex by the point, actually) had refused to go to her prom with her. We chatted for a bit, I offered my shoulder to cry on, as I often have, until she suggested that I go with her. Now, having had deep feelings for her for three years (we tried going out once, but neither of us were really ready for a relationship, and truth be told, I was a bit of an ass ), I said yes, after thinking about it for a day (the long distance thing, and whether or not I wished to risk doing something that might end up bad, go figure.)

So, for two weeks, because I was unable to get up north to see here (we live two hours away from each other) we spoke over MSN, and the phone, talking about this and that, and some things on a more personal note. When the day came that I was to meet her for the prom, I went up. Being iffy about what we were going as (date or friends) I made sure to keep body contact to a minimum (a hug here or there, and the customary arm-linking stuff) and thats how it went for the evening, and I was fine with it. It wasn't until afterwards when she gave me a drive home (as I can't drive yet) we she proceded to shove her tongue down my throat.

Naturally, as a guy, and having feelings for her, I thought she wanted the next step in our friendship, andtry a relationship. We were together the entire weekend, were she kept staying close to me (body contact was high), and did nothing to dissuede my line of thinking. Anyway, so I head home on sunday, whereupon arriving home, I talk to her again, bringing up the idea of a relationship. She tells me that she;s not sure if she's ready for a longdistance relationship, but said that we would see what would happen during the summer (as I'd be living with my mom, working up north for the summer). So, I was upset about that, but I realized her concerns. After that, we seemed to become a bit distanced.

Anyway, I just found out today, from her brother (a very good friend of mine) that she has apparently been seeing someone else for some time. She knew how I felt and such, and she kept saying "we'll see what happens in the summer" and she kept that hidden from me, which I know is here buisness, but becuase she knew how I felt, and she seemed to really like me while I was around, I felt that it was a little unfair that she never told me the truth. Anyway, that brings us to today, and me back into my depression.

Life is good, ain't it.

Woah, ouch man, that's rough. Sounds like taking some time out to think things through is just the thing you need. Make sure, as the Doc says, that you don't cut out everyone though, having (ironically) a sympathetic friend around helps a lot.

[KidD01]

Originally posted by Aegis
No offense to Weasel, or Kid, but cliche's aren't what I need right now. I'm deeply hurt by her. At first, I thought it was just that she wasn't ready for a relationship, especially one that was long distance. Being used by someone isn't a very fun thing. I'm just worried now becuase I'm not sure I'll be able to look her in the face now.

*Sigh*

I think I might take a bit of a brake from SYM for a bit. Sort out my life.

None taken anyway I know you're situation now. Yet CE is the best doc here and I think What I'm gonna says is all in her reply there - Sorry for the late reply.....I'm abit busy IRL. I think I'll be spamming regularly again after 2 weeks.

[Maharlika]

Dang, Aegis! You hit a sensitive nerve there...

...bringing back memories like the rampage of water upon the opening of the flood gates.

My point is - you are not alone on this one.

I've been there EXACTLY like what happened to you... boy, did THAT HURT! ...

...but look where I am now. I married the girl I wanted.

And here in Thailand I could have gotten more (seriously speaking, modesty aside) DESPITE the ring on my finger... (and seriously speaking, I tell my wife about these women and I even forwarded their email notes to her. I want my wife to know that she too is a winner, as much as I am in having her, considering all those competition I've to contend with. I guess, we both deserve each other...

This means...

...your time WILL COME. Believe you me. Get a hold of yourself and be a Man of Character. Women will seek for you. They love strong-willed men. Charge this to experience so you won't get duped again by misunderstanding and "misconstrusions."

I don't want to judge Cait, but from where I'm standing, she just had you on the rebound - due to the temporary misunderstanding between her and her "alleged" ex. Why do I say this? As CE has mentioned, she did not disclose information necessary for you to see the wider picture. And I think she deliberately witheld it.

Does she owe you an explanation? Perhaps. I guess it's because you professed your feelings to her (right?), so she had no right to keep you hanging like a spare tire. You know, if things didnt work out with him, she'd have you as back up. NOW, THAT SUCKS.

That in itself IMHO, means: stay away from her.

But of course, I cannot truly judge her since I don't think I know everything there is to know about her.

She kissed you because, well, you are one good-looking dude.

I'm not trying to patronize you, my friend. Our fellow SYMians are not patronizing you too. What we want is for you to get a much clearer perspective which you alone, and not us, can see.

Then and only then can you arrive at the best decision.

But please remember: Be good to yourself.

[Aegis]

@Mahar: Good advice. You guys have really helped me through this (as well as some of my other firends). I guess now I just have to figure out how to deal with the fact I don't want to lose her as a friend....

[Gruntboy]

@Aegis.

Tough break pal. I have deliberately left this alone, I don't think you want or need my advice on affairs of the heart.

I have had similar problems in the past. All I can say is I have confidence in you and you can always rely on us.

[Obsidian]

HA, excuse me when I say this, but what a *****. I can't believe any girl would be so cruel hearted. I've been toyed with, but not like this. If I were you, she'd be cut from my life, but I'm not you.

IMO, every girl I've ever meet enjoys being pursued. Even if they don't like you, they will keep giving maybes and vague yes's as long as you dote on them. In my experience however, I've always got them eventually. It may not last to long, but I've always gone on a date with them as more than just friends. Aegis, you seem to have passed this stage, and it still didn't work by no fault of your own. Do what you think is right, I suggest packing clothes and food for a week, and go exploring. Take some cash, and trek around toronto. Urban scenes can be very interesting.

Take care big guy!

[Aegis]

I would do a bit of trek, it's just that I have no money (just spent it all on NWN) and I'm not quite in Toronto.

[Obsidian]

heh, then just leave. Tell your folks you are going to a friends for the weekend. Pack some food, whatever cash you have, a good knife (im not joking here) and a spare pair of clothes. Wear something decent like khakis and a shirt, then pack some rain gear and a sleeping bag. And a tarp, cant forget that. Then make your way out of town, somewhere new entirely. The point in my life where everything seemed terrible, I grabbed $20, food, some of my Out door gear and stuff, then explored my city, stayed in churches overnight. No specific religion, but it was reassuring.

[CM]

Aegis just to give you a different spin on things. I have a female friend going through the same thing, or something very similar.

I have a male friend who used like a mutual friend, who was/had been dating a guy for 3 years. He backed off and stayed away. Then in March, she got tipsy and proceeded to "shove her tongue down his throat" as you said. Confused the hell out of the guy and like you he liked her as well, for nearly a year. Things proceeded further where they would meet often and hang out together, as they had the same group of friends.

From March till now, the girl has broken up with my friend 5 times and then gotten back together, while breaking up with her boyfriend twice over the same period. She is confused as hell for sure. When she is with my friend, she is really happy and they look like a couple. When she is with her boyfriend (i kind of know him as well) she just as happy. But she is having major problems deciding.

When talking to her, she told me she just wants to go home and not deal with this, as it is very confusing, at one point she likes one guy at another she likes another. This is something your friend might be going through. I am not sure at all for sure. She might truly like you as you are a good friend, but she might like the other guy as well for some reason. I think CE is right about the dating others while you decide. That might be something.

Also one piece of advise, don't get your friends involved in this thing. This story/real life drama is occuring now, and atleast 8 people are actively involved in the shibang. I am not. When alot of people get involved that is when rumors fly and people start going loco. I have been brought into the whole affair twice, each time i have said i did not say that clear my position with my two friends and then get out of the issue. Bringing in real life friends who know you and/or the girl is just complicating the matter. I would suggest you talk to friends you really trust, people who will keep a secret no matter what.

[Obsidian]

Also one piece of advise, don't get your friends involved in this thing. This

YES YES YES!!!!

Keep your friends out of it, especially the girls, and you know which ones! If you get anyone involved, get the slightly recluse cynical friend involved as a sounding board and advisor. Why? Because they will tell you straight up if you are being dumb!

[Weasel]

Originally posted by Obsidian




Keep your friends out of it,

*Thinks back to the advice of Weasel*

[Aegis]

Originally posted by Obsidian


YES YES YES!!!!

Keep your friends out of it, especially the girls, and you know which ones! If you get anyone involved, get the slightly recluse cynical friend involved as a sounding board and advisor. Why? Because they will tell you straight up if you are being dumb!

Well let's see, the one friend I can confide in and trust he won't say anything is the same guy I've been in competition with to get her to go out (seems both of us lost), and he lives 2 hours away. My cynical friend, told me I'm being a jack ass, to stop following 'richard' around. And her friends (this is the best part) are on my side!

[The Z]

*sigh*, real life makes Hollywood look like preschool material. About her friends being on your side: that's awesome, whenever a bad comes along, ya gotta take the positives, no matter how small. And hey, if you wanna be her friend still, just take a while to sort things out by yourself, and when you feel like it, just talk. I know that sounds blunt, but if you want to maintain a mutual relationship, just talk about stuff (try to ignore love-life ). That's what I think. Heh, I'm not exactly a psychologist. Don't worry though, I'm sure many of us have had similar problems in the past, and if we got over a hill like that, you should have no problem because your a far better man than the majority. Also, try to lighten up a little. I don't want to sound harsh, (I'm one of the least eloquent people) but hey, you're young, enjoy youth, you've got many years to fall in love. Plus, your surrounded by great people. As Beldin would say: "No worries"

[Rob-hin]

Well, I've just gotten involved with a girl after beiing single for a long time. (I wonder why... ) We started on the first day of summer. Her name is Ingrid and she's lovely.

So I think I won't have to be spending a lot of time in here.