Druid/thief: opinions sought

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:04 am

I'm thinking of taking a level of thievery for my druid, to open locks and disarm traps. Short of have only the rogue henchman with me, I can't think of another way to do both; and bashing open locked doors and chests requires a fair bit of strength. Your thoughts on that, and how many skill points to pour into 'em, if any?

Elementus · Post by **Elementus** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:17 am

AS I see it, the best thing to do is experiment, trty the combination, and pour all you have into it, you never know, might be the perfect combination

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:33 am

Problem is, we're dealing with an entirely new (new to CRPGs, that is) system implementation, here. While I'm not exactly a powerplayer, I'd like to avoid playing a character who spends half their points for six levels on a pair of skills that ultimately turn out to be redundant, while other skills go a-begging.

So...rather than just do it for kicks, I'm genuinely seeking opinions. Thanks, though, for replying.

Crosswind · Post by **Crosswind** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:32 am

I'm right now a level 16 druid, just entering part 5.

Aside from having Tomi around, there's a really easy and enjoyable way to get around locked chests. A few of them, actually.

You can a.) Flame lash a chest. 2nd level spell, hasn't failed to break open anything I wanted it to.

b.) Call lightning on a room. Blows up -all- the chests! Whee...

But I find that Tomi is an -awesome- henchman. He does lots of damage. He picks locks. He has a bad accent...

What more do you want?

-Cross

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:08 am

Playing a straight Druid has been hard for me. I just hate leaving an unopened or unbashed chest lying there. Who knows what lovely thing I've missed? I didn't want to take Tomi along with me, since he was the first henchman to accost me before I had even had a chance to step outside and get my bearings. A little rude, I thought. (actually, placing Tomi right there in the Halls of Justice seemed like an obvious ploy by the game designers to encourage the player to pick him up first thing. I hate doing things the 'way I'm supposed to'

)

I later found that Sharwyn will pick many of the locks I come across, and bashing becomes easier when buffed up under one of her spells or with Bull's Strength.

Here's the thing that gets me: traps. I haven't figured a way to disarm these things, without just taking the damage. More traps have killed me than monsters! So, rather than take a level of rogue, I opted for cross-training in disarm traps. So far, I haven't disarmed a single trap! (still low level) I need to spend more skill points....

I don't know if I am being true to my druidical ethos by cross-training, but I figure its better than completely diverting my attentions by taking a level elsewhere.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:12 am

Here's the thing that gets me: traps. I haven't figured a way to disarm these things, without just taking the damage. More traps have killed me than monsters! So, rather than take a level of rogue, I opted for cross-training in disarm traps. So far, I haven't disarmed a single trap! (still low level) I need to spend more skill points....

Yes, that's precisely the kind of thing I'm referring to. I can't see how a druid could play through an area that requires you to step across traps (as opposed to walk around 'em), unless they'd studied how to disarm 'em, or brought along a thief henchman. And my understanding was that Bioware produced the different henchmen to fit your needs in different areas--at least, that's what they wrote.

This seems to make Tomi the required henchman for many player professions.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:24 am

Originally posted by fable
Yes, that's precisely the kind of thing I'm referring to. I can't see how a druid could play through an area that requires you to step across traps (as opposed to walk around 'em), unless they'd studied how to disarm 'em, or brought along a thief henchman. And my understanding was that Bioware produced the different henchmen to fit your needs in different areas--at least, that's what they wrote.

Hmmmm. Well, that will be a problem for me then. The first time through any of these games, I always take a set of NPCs and stick with them. I live my life vicariously through my character, and since I don't run around dumping my friends every other day as soon as a more powerful friend comes along.... So I played BG1 with Minsc, Dynaheir, Jahiera, and Kalid all the way through, despite the fact that Kalid wasn't powerful enough and Jahiera was very annoying in BG1.

I intend to keep Sharwyn for as long as I can. And I'll just have to protect myself before setting off traps. (note that Sharwyn detects traps like a pro, but never offers to disarm them for me.)

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:02 am

Originally posted by Crosswind
What more do you want?

Would I be right to assume that you always use Tomi for disarming traps?

As for Call Lightning, I'm glad that's included for opening boxes in NWN--actually hadn't thought of it.

Now, back when I was playing Gemstone III online, we used to have a Call Lightning spell owned by clerics. It "looked" (since this was a text-based game) extremely impressive, and allways detonated everything you aimed it at. Unfortunately, it also had the potential to destroy objects inside chests, which *I'm assuming* won't happen in NWN.

Dottie · Post by **Dottie** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:40 am

I havnt played very much NwN yet. But this is the reasons why I did abandon my sorcerer with a few rouge levels, wich seem to be a smilar combo.

1. Dualclassing spellcasters in NwN is imo not that effective, as you on higher levels are missing out rather many powerful spells, even if you're only having a very low number of other levels.

2. I assumed (may be wrong) that locks and traps will be more difficult to open/disarm later in the game, and if you cant keep pace your rouge level wont do you any good anyway.

Im not sure how many points you can put into traps/lockpick skills if you take a rouge level either... Will the system use your rouge level (would mean only 4 points) or will it use you total level, or use whats highest of your rouge level and half your druid level? Does anyone know this?

Crosswind · Post by **Crosswind** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 10:55 am

Ok! Cross gets to tell his "The time I fell in love with call lightning!" story! Yay! Get out the s'mores, kids.

Back in the day, with Baldur's gate 1, me and a friend were playing our own crappy version of multiplayer (each guy made a character, and we switched turns at controls. Sure, it wasn't hi-tech, but it was fun as heck. He was playing a thief, named John Fullheart. Looking back, it was a freaking hippie name, but whatever! Fullheart had a reputation, you see. He died to -everything-. Gibberlings, wild dogs, bears, chromatic orb, you name it. It's worthwhile to note that he continued this tradition in Baldur's gate II: if I had a dime for every time I said "YES! We killed firkraag! @#$#@J#! Fullheart got chunked...again!", I would not have to be working right now. I'm sure you have all played with a character like this at some point. So anyhow, that was him.

I played a druid! And, needless to say, as soon as we hit level 5, I took call lightning. It was quite simply the coolest spell in the game. You cast it, wait for a few seconds, and then WHAAAAAM. Down comes a beautiful bolt of lightning which not only destroys somebody, but leaves these little electric flashes sizzling over their corpse. Was beautiful.

So, we got to the Xvart village. Right. Remember Xvarts? Like, weaker than gibberlings? Evidence of how n00b we were was that soon, due to hordes of Xvarts, the party was down to me and fullheart. Now, the interesting thing about call lightning was that it would come down at random intervals afterwards. Many times, we got saved by the fact that a huge bolt of lightning crashing down would scare off the nearby Xvarts.

Now John hadn't been killed by Xvarts yet. You could feel the tension in the air. My friend was well aware that he would never hear the end of it if his character died to a Xvart. Ever. But soon enough, the call lightning wasn't crashing down, we were out of heals, and fullheart was at low life. 5 Xvarts left alive.

Fullheart started running. All the Xvarts chased him. Remember, in BG1, running was -slow-. So he starts running around this Xvart hut. Running in circles with 5 Xvarts following him.

Finally, a Xvart got smart. It circled, back, and he was trapped between 2 huts. We heard the sickening thwack of a Xvart hand on Fullheart, and he pitched forward. At the same time, my friend let out the sound of ultimate suffering: When your character just died to a midget, and you know that your best friend is going to mock you for it for years.

I made it out of the village alive, as I was able to convince some animals to help me (yay for being a fruity druid), then came back and wrought -vengeance- with call lighting. That was when I realized that shooting little globes of light wasn't for me. I was all about the SMITE.

And so, to this day, I play druids so I can smite people with call lighting. And to this day, I mock my poor buddy about the tale of John Fullheart and the Xvarts.

Anyhoo, now that you've sat through that and are probably sitting there going "wtf? That wasn't funny at all", I'll actually answer your questions.

As for traps, I'll admit: I use Tomi to disarm them. However, the ones he can't disarm (and there are a few) I just suck up. I have maxxed heal skill (best skill ever!), and I heal about 50 points of damage. I cast protection from elements, and I'm at about 150 hit points (good constitution, toughness), and I don't get killed by 'em.

As a druid, however, you have the best of a lot of worlds. You're not a terrible fighter. You can summon things that -are- good fighters. Yet you can heal. And you have great direct damage that stacks up well against anything a mage can toss (it's not quite as good, but it's not bad at all). So all you're really lacking is a thief...

And that's where Tomi comes in! =)

I'm not sure how I'd do it if I were a fighter, though. Maybe just bash in all the chests and suck up trap damage.

-Cross

Nygma · Post by **Nygma** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:42 am

I just started a rogue last night... fell in love with double bladed swords (one of the first +1 weapons I came across) and wanted a character to master that weapon.

I also decided to take a level of druid because I wanted an animal companion.

After playing a bit, I'm thinking about doing the same thing you are... a druid with roguish abilities. My plan is roughly 15/5 druid/rogue. What I think will more or less make this work is that I get a lot of skills for rogue - 11 per level up. By leveling up as a rogue every 4 levels or so, I can max disarm and pick lock, with some left over for spot.

Problems -- need lots of wisdom, some intelligence, lots of dexterity, some charisma for the character I'm playing. That leaves constitution and strength way out in the cold. But with the half-orc barbarian as a henchman, who needs more muscle?

Really, I just love playing a druid who can dual wield short sword and dagger and sneak attack. Playing a rogue with a hawk companion and who call down nature's fury is also very cool.

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 11:50 am

Originally posted by Nygma:
a druid who can dual wield short sword and dagger

Aren't druids restricted to their own weapons (club, staff, dagger, sling,...) ?

Otherwise, I might consider taking a druid level too...

TC,
Geert

Nygma · Post by **Nygma** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:01 pm

Aren't druids restricted to their own weapons (club, staff, dagger, sling,...) ?

I was wondering that too when I started, but after adding my first druid level I was still dual wielding short sword and dagger, and after adding another rogue level I was able to wield a double bladed sword.

So as far as I can tell, a rogue/druid can wield rogue weapons. Probably all weapon feats other than druid are unavailable when leveling up as druid, but choosing say exotic weapons when leveling up as a rogue seems to work.

Nygma · Post by **Nygma** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:05 pm

I guess the trick is leveling up as a rogue at the same level that lets you pick a new feat. At third level I chose rogue and exotic weapons. At six I'll probably try rogue level and weapon finesse. This 10 strength just doesn't cut it.

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:45 pm

Seems like a loophole to me...reminds me of some Kensai-Mages in BGII

Mathurin · Post by **Mathurin** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:47 pm

The weapon proficiencies are just a few things that have changed in NWN. In regular D&D when you take exotic proficiency it only applies to one weapon, in NWN it applies to all of them, its the same with weapon finesse. In D&D its not that Druids can never wield other weapons , its simply that its against their faith to do so, In NWN you can wield anything you gain proficiency with, thus if you took a level of fighter you could have a druid wearing full plate and weilding a greataxe.