Joining the Dark Side

LosPantalones5 · Post by **LosPantalones5** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 6:44 pm

When you are in the graveyard and Bohdi asks you to join, what happens if you say yes? Or will it not allow you to.

Montolio · Post by **Montolio** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 7:03 pm

you can get transportation from her to the asylum instead of asking the shadow guild... she just sends you on missions and in the end tells you to kill the guild.

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Sat Apr 27, 2002 9:38 pm

Only the most Chaotic and evil of people would side with Bodhi.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 12:00 am

you also lose mazzie and keldy...

minsc, jahiera, aerie and tashia will stay, tho....

just tested out today...

not sure about nalia, (no loss....sorry, folks, but she is useless...)

mazzy and keldy will make certain quests undoable, you cannot ransome the buried alive quest with mazzie in party as she will go ahead and call you as having the manners of a drunken dwarf and free the lady...

Baldursgate Fan · Post by **Baldursgate Fan** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 12:38 am

@User

I am not surprised at Mazzy and Keldy leaving, paladin and psuedo paladin types are too good for vampires. What I am surprised is that Minsc stayed, considering that his racial enemy IS vampires. Weird...

@ LosPantalones5

I will go with the majority and say that siding with Bodhi is probably not on, however, if you are playing an evil party, I suppose it's OK.

Cheers.

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 12:39 am

Minsc is to stupid to realize they are vampires without someone telling him

Thrar · Post by **Thrar** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:21 am

well, at least one char belongs on Bodhis side for roleplaying:
my Chaotic Neutral Wildmage!!

i didnt know anyone would actually leave, i have minsc in party, glad he does not ^_^. He did complain when i said i wanna do the evil quest (where u have the choice), and that made me change my chaotic mind...now vic and korgan complained, but not as heartbreaking.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 2:15 am

minsc says "bad bun bun, bad!!!" seriously funny if your pc has funny name...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 2:21 am

actually one good reason to side with bodhi....

rifthome axe, is got better stats, by a fraction than dwarven thrower, and does not have annoying knock bakc like the tob axe...

also, we had a discussion a while back in forum, where you realized,

athlanka has 2 problems, shadow thieves, and vampires, since you get to kill vampires in chapter 6 anyway, you should kill off the shadow thieves in chapter 2, leaving amn nicer with both groups dead...if you play lawful good, you should ally with bodhi, so you can destroy both orgs...

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:07 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
also, we had a discussion a while back in forum, where you realized,

athlanka has 2 problems, shadow thieves, and vampires, since you get to kill vampires in chapter 6 anyway, you should kill off the shadow thieves in chapter 2, leaving amn nicer with both groups dead...if you play lawful good, you should ally with bodhi, so you can destroy both orgs...

Yes, thats exactly what my Chaotic good Fighter/Mage does!
He already played the game few times, and he have 17 INT, so he was able to think on this great plan

Can someone post a link to the mentioned thread?

Xan deVir · Post by **Xan deVir** » Sun Apr 28, 2002 8:42 am

I found it disappointing that thieves can't side with bodhi -not all the thieves are shadow thieves, you know

anyway changing the pc class to fighter (with shadowkeeper) before the dialog with bodhi and changing it back to thief after the dialog works well in this situation

Veal · Post by **Veal** » Mon May 13, 2002 7:47 am

thieves and Bohdi

So how do you get a theives guild if u cheat and side with bohdi?

I would like to side with her, and was a little shocked when she denied me since I was an assasin, and she wants u to assasinate people!

Xan deVir · Post by **Xan deVir** » Mon May 13, 2002 8:50 am

@Veal
You don't get the thieves guild if you side with her because you become an enemy of the shadow thieves... you must choose a side.

Veal · Post by **Veal** » Mon May 13, 2002 9:01 am

That was my point..

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:51 am

Exception to Thieves & Bodhi

Hi, I've used the search quite a lot, and a lot of people talk about how thieves can't join with Bodhi...however, being a fighter/thief, not only have I been able to acquire the Thieves' stronghold but also join with her.
The Question is: Having the Thieves' Stronghold, will your alliance with Bodhi have any impact on that? Will you be able to do all of the Hold's quests and Bodhi's quests without there being any clash?
I'd really appreciate any answer, because I haven't found much about it on the search, so I decided to 'resurface' this thread, instead of creating a new one posing this question.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:41 am

SPOILERS: As long as you've already been made guildmaster before you side with B. the thieves stronghold stuff runs as normal through out...you can even kill Renal (after being made guild master) and then side with Bodhi and the guild runs as normal. The quartermaster is obviously keeping all the cash for himself

Lost One · Post by **Lost One** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 10:57 am

Thanks a lot for the reply, kopy.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 11:45 am

Originally posted by GNGSpam
Only the most Chaotic and evil of people would side with Bodhi.

I respectfully disagree. I think it's an interesting issue to debate.

Here is a repost of a message I recently posted under the topic "Aran's Betrayal (SPOILERS)". You can see the original message thread at http://gamebanshee.com/forums/showthrea ... ND+chaotic

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BEGIN REPOST

Originally posted by mental_nomad
Won't being a Paladin and siding with Bodhi be a major conflict? bodhi is a serious evil option right?

To answer your question, a Paladin shouldn't work for someone evil, such as Bodhi. It's against their code. Besides, doing anything that makes an evil creature stronger is bad business. Also, Paladins don't accept the idea that the end justifies the means. For example, you shouldn't murder a bunch of Shadow Thieves to help your friend Imoen. There are all sorts of reasons why working for Bodhi is wrong from the Lawful Good perspective.

But from a Chaotic Good or Neutral Good perspective, it's not so clear that siding with Bodhi is worse than siding with the Shadow Thieves. The alignments do have their differences. For example, a Chaotic Good character would torture an enemy if it would help save lives. A Neutral Good character would look beyond the immediate situation and consider the greater good.

Here's how my own Neutral Good characters look at it:

The Shadow Thieves' operations consist of: burglary, extortion, smuggling, slavetrading, assassination, in-house torture, and generally terrorizing the entire city. They want you to eliminate the only group that has ever successfully opposed them--Bodhi's guild--so that they can continue their operations. In other words, if you help the Shadow Thieves, you will be helping them continue to burglarize, extort, smuggle, trade slaves, assassinate, torture, and terrorize. You will cover yourself in blood. Is this supposed to be the GOOD path?

Now look at Bodhi. As far as you can tell, Bodhi doesn't prey on anyone but Shadow Thieves. That's the extent of her operations. Now look at what she asks you to do for her. As she puts it, "You will have the chance to destroy the largest criminal organization in Amn." You don't have to kill anyone but Shadow Thieves. As a matter of fact, you even get to rescue a couple of people who are being tortured. How evil is THAT? Minsc loves the idea. He says, "We will charge into the midst of the den of thieves and fling them about like pancakes! All that is glory shall be ours! And then breakfast." Spoken like a true hero!

Even though a Paladin shouldn't work for Bodhi, I don't know how a Paladin is supposed to justify working for the Shadow Thieves, either. But then again, I don't play a Paladin, so I'm not used to thinking the way that they do. It seems to me that a Paladin wouldn't work for either group. He would try to storm Spellhold himself--the honorable way. Of course, he'd never make it there without the help of pirates and scoundrels, so it looks to me like he'd be stuck...

END REPOST
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Back in April 2001, I made a similar post that entailed a similar line of reasoning. Here is the original message thread: http://gamebanshee.com/forums/showthrea ... ND+Thieves .

The response to it wasn't so great. Sparrowhawk disagreed with me (he made a good argument), and cheesemage said, "well i really didnt need the whole ethics thing..."

I think it's an interesting debate, and I'd like to hear more opinions on the issue. Or, if you can link me to some old message threads that appeal to you, that would be nice!

Here's an example of a message thread that's fun to read:
http://gamebanshee.com/forums/showthrea ... genumber=1

Frankly, I'm not impressed by arguments such as, "You should side with the Shadow Thieves because you get more treasure and more experience," because they lack a moral dimension. But I enjoy reading thoughtful posts, even if I don't agree with them!

Malakian · Post by **Malakian** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 9:14 am

All that happens is you work for her. Instead of destroying the vampire guild you must destroy the Shadow Thieves. I found her side to be fun playing, although she still betrays you in Spellhold. Also you get two new quest options, although you can only do one since they are offered at the same time. One is assassinating some guy and blaming it on Shadow Thieves and its been a while since I did it, but if I recall the other is stealing something.