Warcraft 3

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:49 pm

Originally posted by Nippy
I've never played Starcraft, is it worth it? I'm downloading the demo now. I'm intrigued...

Well i got kind of ticked off with the control method but it seems quite involving, 7 billion Japanese can't be wrong

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:50 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

Well i got kind of ticked off with the control method but it seems quite involving, 7 billion Japanese can't be wrong

No? You mean you like sushi?

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:55 pm

Originally posted by fable
No? You mean you like sushi?

Doesn't everyone?

@WC3, i must admit what i played of it was very involving, it seems to have taken parts of most RTS and combined them into a better whole, anyone who played Battle Realms will automatically recognise the idea of hero's, it is a lot more successfully implemented in WC3, not that the game hasn't got it's problems, and it does rely somewhat on the now standard tank rush

although it is nice to see that the computer player in a LAN game is absolutely brutal

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:19 pm

The only gripe I've got with Warcraft 3 is that Blizzard spoke persons keep telling the press that Warcraft 3 involves "smaller, more involved battle." I don't know about anyone else, but when I play a RTS game, I expect hundreds and thousands of units just duking it out on the battlefield, not some group with 1 hero and 6 orcs firing a spell once in a while. After all, isn't war supposed to be huge with all sides involved and if you only have less than 20 units fighting, it takes out the fun.

Dakkon · Post by **Dakkon** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:36 pm

UMMMMMMMM Sorry to burst your bubble man, but this game is Based around concept of RTS, but they changed stuff around to make it more fun. In starcraft i remember we used to get karigan, and other such heroes but they were rarely used, but with addition of this now we will be forced to use hero. Also to have a smaller battle with a hero and couple people along them makes the concept of Rush nearly impossible and involves lot more strategy than building like 5 hives, and poping out zergs at speed of light or having massive battles with 100s of units, most of whom you cant really even control once the battle stats. If you are thinknig of WC3 as Ages of Empire C&C, Starcraft, etc...........than you have the whole concept wrong.
WC3 best can resemble Battlerealms, since they both are based on same concept.
As for Fable, all the games you mentioned are good, but the fact of matter is those games will not recieve half the recognition warcraft 3 will. The reason is very simple see those games have 1 awesome thing, and all other thyings are okay, while WC3 will be composed of not awesome, not okay, but all good things. Also Wc3 will be lot more interesting than games you mentioned due to huge amount of players that play on battle net, and since the blizzard world editor is very easy to use, and i rememeber in SC the amount of custom maps was huge.
As for NwN i do not think its dreary, but i dont think its half as good as Torment, or Bg. The game was supposed to be amazing but its not, spell affects are horrible(Torment spell affects were amazing......1999). Also the henchmen are the most useless things ever created, they suck first of all, an 2nd of all its gay how you cant equip them or put stuff in their inventory.
Lastly when i said "every thing is the same, maybe some super weapons will generate at some other location but thats about it. " i meant that every map is same, see when you know every time exactly where to go you loose interest VERY fast, a good RPG needs a random map generator, for that reason alone Daiblo series have been able to outlast every bioware game, by a good year, and we all know that daiblo does not have many quests etc, nor great graphics......but it does have lot more replayability than NwN. Lastly the best thing about Blizzard is that when they relese a game you know that the game is 99.99999% perfect, while NwN has already had 2 major patches, and if you dont beleive me go check out the manul donwlaod of patch since it is 34.5 mb, yes you heard me right 34.5 mb...........thats a huge ass patch. Lastly NwN makes cheating impossibly easy, by needing only passwords, making multiplayer useless since characters are saved on your computer.

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 9:58 pm

@Dakkon:

I didn't get the wrong conception of Warcraft 3, I knew it is going to be like the way you described. However, I didn't really liked Battle Realms, even though it's got some pretty cool innovations. It all comes down to the issue of micromanagement. I don't want to micromanage my five orcs and 1 hero so that I have to watch them every single minute to make sure that they don't die. If it's going to be like that, I'd rather micromanage six guys in Baldur's Gate 2. Like you said, most of the time during massive battles, I can't really control efficiently all my units, but to me, that's precisely the reason the game is fun. It's chaotic and frantic, and I love it. That's why I love Shogun: Total War, you control thousands, not hundreds, but thousands and thousands of units all at once.

Also, every Blizzard game has received an unbelievable amount of hype prior to its release. Yes, I know Blizzard has an excellent track record, but they only make great MULTIPLAYER games. Not one of Blizzard's games (with the possible except of Starcraft) has had an engaging and interesting single player component. About the random map-generator in RPG, the only thing it really does is randomly-generate items and monsters, not involving side-quests, not involving overall story, not interesting NPCs. Think for a moment of combining Planescape with a random map-generator, can any game developer possibly randomly generate all of the good things that are in Planescape? Any one developer truly be able to randomly generate, each time a player plays, the same amount of cool quests, interesting NPCs, and the excellent overall plot? It's impossible. What random map generators are really good at is giving players the incentive to go through the game again, hoping to find different items and fight different monsters. Computers are only good at crunching numbers. If you really want randomly generated adventures that are finely crafted and carefully thought out, there is only one solution. Table top Dungeons And Dragons. Each time the players play, things are going to be different from the last session. The DM might have changed the plot, added a couple of interesting items, crafted new quests, or changed the overall plot. That's true randomness, because you never know what to expect.

Alienbob · Post by **Alienbob** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:11 am

Well i for one am definitley going to put away NWN for a few days at least. Ive been waiting for Warcraft 3 for over 2 years. I like RTS games. in fact before BG got me hooked on RPGs, RTSs were the only games i played. Starcraft is IMO the best RTS ever made and i have a feeling that WC3 is going to be at least as good, most likely better. Hell i may even skip work tommorow just so i can play it.

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:13 am

Originally posted by Nippy
I've never played Starcraft, is it worth it? I'm downloading the demo now. I'm intrigued...

It is a great game. As with all RTS's, I'm sure, it will take some time to get to know the strengths and weaknesses of each unit, but that's what makes the game so great. Try the demo and see if you like it. I don't know what's on it, but in the full version the missions will gradually teach you how to use the units, still with plenty of action, so that it doesn't get boring while you're still learning. Furthermore, each mission is linked to the next with a superb storyline. Aah... I distinctly remember the "oh, yeah"-effect I felt when I first witnessed the power of a Siege Tank in Siege mode

or when I set out on a search-and-destroy patrol with a Protoss Carrier fleet or

... One word of warning, though: don't get frustrated over the harder missions (don't know if they'll be included in the demo): all the more satisfaction when you've finally turned the tables in your advantage and you decide it's payback time.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 4:49 am

Woooowww....

That was cool. I like that game a lot. The storyline (over 3 missions) was fantastic. I'm just ordering it and the expansion now.

Thanks to those who recommended it.

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 4:57 am

No worries (copyright@Beldin), Nippy. As I said, don't get frustrated over the harder missions, but get even. So, you're planning to buy Broodwar too? From what I've seen so far, it's really good too (I've recently started playing it again and I'm tackling mission 7 of the Protoss Campaign now).

Ode to a Grasshopper · Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:03 am

It gets better further on, though there were some bits that annoyed me, like SPOILER when you can't save Kerrigan (it was Kerrigan, wasn't it? That woman who got abducted and turned into a cool Zerg creature?) despite the fact that your multiple rows of the best airborne ships (I forget what they were called) and Siege tanks are destroying those basic Zerg units faster than they keep appearing.

Enjoy the game, Nipster.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:03 am

I shoult start playing it again too.
I have bolth the game and expansion, but I'm having a hard time getting through the 3th story... damn... forgot what they were called.

I REALLY should start playing again.
But it's hard with all those cool games that I have now, Neverwinter Nights anybody?

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:13 am

Yes, please

(I've got the same lack of time, Rob-hin)
@Ode (minor SPOILER): you're right on her name and that annoyed me too... and the airborne ships you refer to, are the Battle Cruisers IIRC (love the Russian accent - Battle Cruiser Operational)

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:16 am

I need to wait until my dad gets home and I can use his card to buy it.

But it will come, I was a little bit confused initially (why can't my siege tank [which BTW are frickin' awesome

] attack an airbourne unit?) The game rocks.

Eerhardt · Post by **Eerhardt** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 5:21 am

@Nippy: small hint (if you hadn't found out already

) : Blizzard is famous for its dialogues in Starcraft/Warcraft: try clicking on a single unit several times to hear some really funny stuff

.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:02 am

Warcraft 2 used to crack me up every time.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:18 am

@Nips : Starcraft is a must for RTS lovers. The BroodWar expansion also is must if you played Starcraft since it's considered the finale for Starcraft Saga. SPOILER :If you beat the par time on final mission on Broodwar IIRC you can get a bonus mission and it's worth it !

@Ode : Yes, Blizzard makes real funny dialogue on their games.
Example :
Troll dialog from Warcraft 2 :
Who you want to kill ?
Throw an axe ?
I got axe for you !

Ogre :
BURB ! He did it ! HooH He di it !

Ogre Mage :
We're not brainless anymore !

Alleira :
You never touch any elf like that again !

The funnies part is when you over click a marine unit there's a sound of drunkard plays

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:20 am

As for Fable, all the games you mentioned are good, but the fact of matter is those games will not recieve half the recognition warcraft 3 will. The reason is very simple see those games have 1 awesome thing, and all other thyings are okay, while WC3 will be composed of not awesome, not okay, but all good things.

We must agree to disagree, then.

I think the reason Warlords: Battlecry 2 and other, similarly distinctive and original titles receive less attention than WC3 is because Blizzard puts a ton of money into publicity and marketing, and always has. I'm not suggesting they're incompetent. But I think their games, while good, are (IMO) far from the best examples of RTS around. They simply hire better creative advertising firms who are used to design publicity campaigns, rather than simply selling the product. This isn't a development that receives the kind of attention it should; even Microsoft doesn't "place" its products with the amount of money and degree of attention Blizzard does.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Wed Jul 03, 2002 6:33 am

My favourite Warcraft 2 line was "We're ready! I'm not ready..." for the ogres.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Wed Jul 03, 2002 8:43 am

The best was the exploding sheep in WC2... Classic...

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