soa moral questions.. rant

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 9:53 am

Spoiler???? Beware!!!

Is it wrong to polymorph cats / rats / groundhogs into squirrels?

for what alignment is that kind of behavoir apropriate...

I know how to kill people without suffering aligment loss... summon a fiend nearby "It was the fiend! I had nothing to do with it!"

Does anyone know that you get a fancy +2 dagger of the dryad at windspear hills, does it make me a bad person If I kill her for it?

Isnt jaihera supposed to be true neutral!? I made sensible neutral descisions with my druid and she gave me stick, her suggestions and such are more like someone of lawfull good alignment,,, exepting of course in those moment she wants to get stuck into keldorn or anomen did the programmers try to make her a miserable ***** worthless exuse for an npc, with the single most alignment contradicting dialogs of anyone in both bg soa and tob
Khalid was a whining sh*** and the single worst npc ever btw, good thing he died

You can change half the evil pcs to good..... why cant you corrupt the good pc's??? T'aint fair

When tob ends the final count for good and evil is as follows

Good gets : Sarevok, big unit deathbringer guy who rocks
Viconia, half decent cleric.. prob the single best pc in bg1 and close to best in bg2

Evil gets : Anomen, sort off as he can become chaotic neutral which isnt exactly good... the only thing is he is whiny punk and wouldnt be worth trading for a flake of dead skin off Sarevoks bald head

The final insult I think is in that the silver dragon is only worth some 40k xp and firkraag is worth around 60k
and if you ask me the silver dragon is nuff harder

Well enough of my boring rant... for any like minded evil types out there, Fight the stinky goodness that black isle are trying to ram down our throats!

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 10:48 am

Is it wrong to polymorph cats / rats / groundhogs into squirrels?

for what alignment is that kind of behavoir apropriate... [/b]

Chaotic Neutral

Does anyone know that you get a fancy +2 dagger of the dryad at windspear hills, does it make me a bad person If I kill her for it? [/b]

yes

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Apr 24, 2002 4:11 pm

its worse than that, gnome...i made jahiera neutral good to keep her whining down, and after I completed harper quest got her harper pin she could not use until I turned her neutral again...

just make aerie evil, and you have a better cleric with more useful turn than viccy...and its fun to hear her say...

"i'm so glad you took me with you, I never imagined we would be doing such good things!!!"" after you slaughter the orphans in the slums...

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 2:36 am

Spoiler???

Jaheira whines to much, so does Aerie and for that matter so does vic... the only worthy soa/tob npc's are jan, Sarevok Edwin and Korgan
Why do all the female npc's have LARGE mental issues?
with the possible exclusion of Nalia who is just a ****

More ranting!

WTF happened to Xan... I want Xan back! now I am aware the enchanters pretty much bite the big one but Xans disposition is too good.. Somone should make a Xan mod for soa

DAMN you harpers for killing monty and Xzar! They were my favourite npc's from bg1 and those stinkin harpers killed em... I cleaned out the harper base after that and still didnt think it was a fair trade
When I first saw Xzar the first time I played I was like "Wohhoo! Get the hell in my party! Lets raise some hell!"
but the stinky harpers crushed my hopes and dreams

oh and one more thing..........FIGHTERS GET NO RESPECT COME TOB!

Its all just Aerie telling Korgan how she is an archmage and blah blah blah and imoen Thretening Sarevok!
I hate the tob dialogue where Imoen give Sarevok a load of smarm, about how she is an archmage and doesnt have to be afriad of him and all that
in reply to that I can only say : Your either an idiot or your lying couse my pc is a 27 sorc and he is afraid of upraded gram +5 greater whilwinds with deathbringer assoult

LISTEN! You are still a mage...... you ALL ARE! You still suck you still have to run away, Sarevok and Korgan are there to prevent your sack magic missle throwing hide from being overrun by fire giant so HAVE SOME DAMN RESPECT!

Ill say it again....... Sarevok rules, that laugh sarevok does when you tell him to move is worth a million of jan's stories
OH AND ONE MORE THING! to all you smarm mages! Sarevok can dual to a mage.. 17 intel, just snipe fire giants still he gets his thingy thingy..... Non sk'd mage with deathbringer!!

Final peice of raving....... dual yoshimo to a fighter and he is actually worth bringing along, infact he is a legend fighter and doesnt take long to beat his old lvl

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:41 am

LISTEN! You are still a mage...... you ALL ARE! You still suck you still have to run away, Sarevok and Korgan are there to prevent your sack magic missle throwing hide from being overrun by fire giant so HAVE SOME DAMN RESPECT!

Sarevok: raises his swords towards Imoen
Immie: holds Staff of Magi (becomes invisible at once)
Sarevok: stands confused
Immie: casts Time Stop (doesn't break invisibility!!!)
Immie: Imprisonment (uninterrupted)
Sarevok: imprisoned

Day after....

Immie: casts Freedom
Sarevok: "please MIGHTY IMOEN, please, don't do it AGAIN!!!!"

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 7:22 am

i've said it so many times, everyone knows it.

@gnomethingy you put a spoiler about ToB in SoA forum??? i've been told the mods are too busy to control it, and i don't blame them, they are busy. but is it too much to ask to put smth like SPOILER about TOB, before telling what's the ending when choosing good/evil? as Fable has also pointed out it's the rules, you ppl should read them, has it ever occurred to you that some people who read the topics in the SoA forum haven't played ToB yet, and don't want to know things, like the ending in advance...

i'm in a bad mood, i'm not always such an a$$

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 8:15 am

I fix...

******SPOILER!!! BEWARE!!! SPOILER !!! BEWARE !!!!! *******
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shame imoen didnt have a single lvl 9 spell at the time..

The thing that annoys me is that Sarevok is actually scared! THIS IS WRONG! THIS EATS AWAY AT EVERYTHING I HOLD DEAR... Sarevok is the armoured figure that wastes gorion while the weakling pc looks on helpless and crying! HE SHOULD NOT GIVE A SQUAT ABOUT THREATS FROM THE PC's BABY SISTER... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sarevoks gone soft!

And besides... imoen may be able to imprison sarevok, unfortunatly he korgan and a multiplayer npc (user controlled) were tanking some 15 elite fire giants and the fire giant cleric, Imoen cant cast imprisonment 15 times.. which illustrates my point, mages think there good when there a wall of meat standing between them and lots of nasty stuff
My point is that every pc mage in the game thinks there gods own gift to monster slaying, all of them are next to worthless save Edwin who gets nuff spells and Aerie at big lvls pulling chained earthquakes ect
AND NONE OF THEM HAVE ANY SPIRIT!!!!!! (Excuses of course edwin and jan)
THINK ABOUT IT!!!
Sarevok : Death comes for you ! Feel its icy grasp !!
Korgan : Blood and glory, Now ye die !
Imoen : Ill show you a fight.. WTF IS THAT!
Nalia : For the needy !???? Im not even going the start on that
Aerie : I wont let my friends get hurt!!!!!! WHO SAID THERE YOUR FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE LIKES YOU!

lol I can imagine a baldurs gate 3 where you can have irenicus in your party and in form with the legendary evil guys becoming lousy wimps syndrome he will say things like

"I Dont think I can be caged!"
"I can probably not be contained!"

"Silence dog! Your only purpose is to die by my hand!!! If thats alright with you..."

Xan deVir · Post by **Xan deVir** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 10:25 am

Originally posted by gnomethingy

mages think there good when there a wall of meat standing between them and lots of nasty stuff

iF mages use defensive spells which make them immune to physical attacks even the strongest fighter will be standing in front of him, desperately trying to hit the mage with no effect while bleeding to death and suffering a great amount of pain!

...Liches are a good example for such situation

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 6:44 pm

tsk tsk tsk

You have to place things in context....... dont make examples of enemies chars that bear no resemblance to reals chars in that liches carry with them some 4 or 5 chain contingencies loaded down with imrpoved mantles and protection from magic weapons

A normal mage is only able to cast 1 or 2 spells before his protection spells runs out, at which point he has to run around until he can cast another spell

the reason liches are hard is becouse there protection spell wears off, you wack them a few times and it sets of another chain contingency which refreshes there mirror image, stoneskins, improved mantle ect

Liches are also immune to normal weapons, which means protection from magic weapons gives them complete immunity for 4 rounds

If a non tob pc mage casts protection from magic weapons...... he can be hit by normal weapons, mantle and he can be hit by any +4 weapons, improved mantle and he can be hit by any +5 weapon and absolute immunity he can be hit by one of few +6 weapons

Now if you take my post for what it is.. a rant, you will see that im not saying a fighter is better than a mage, while they are in my opinion simply becouse I hate magic the MASSIVe amount of tactics/ items ect that come into a fight between a fighter and a mage must be considered when you say one is better

Think.... wands of spells striking, robe of vecna, amulet of power, weapon and item abilities such as hindos doom immunity to death magic, carsomyrs 40% mr, potions of invisiblity to cancel spells, mislead, summons, barbarian and bezerker rage immunities, kit specific abilities (true sigh, dispel magic, cumulative spells failure, natural mr) rings of invisibility and impoved invisibility, rings of spell turning and ring of the ram.. arrows of dispelling, boots of speed, and a host of other such items and skills that can have an impact on any fighter vs mage situation

SO THERE! Sarevok rules and imoen is actually an imposter, somone resurected noober and gave him a girdle of gender...

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 7:29 pm

@ gnomethingy, if you really don't like the game, then don't play. That simple.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 4:05 am

Hey, this is turning to a holy war! Sort of.

I had just yesterday the Immie-Sarevok banter, and after all
he didn't look so scared, let's say he too shows some kind of
respect now.
And he HAS to! I know he's powerful, but in my party (me, Imoen,
Sarevok) he's the one who gets always hurt.
Imoen may not have 15 Imprisonment, but she can avoid as she wants
battles and stay alive.
And she has some good mass-effect spells.
Actually, I never had to resurrect her, while Sarevok died a couple
of times...
(you know, that dialogue, Immie says that she has experienced only
the "simple" death... Well, this annoyes me, in my game it's completely
untrue!!!! She's always been alive)

In fact, I've taken Sarevok for better roleplaying, but I could do
easily without him...
Imoen could simply summon some Sleton Warriors or Mord. Swords and
haste them, IF melee becomes strictly necessary....

(apart that I have already a kensai/mage!!)

Anyway, I agree that Sarevok has great lines!!!
And Nalia is a complete whimp!!!!!!!!
"For the needy!!!!"?!?!?
I'm Neutral/SuperGood, and would NEVER say such a thing!!!

Plus, she's the bad clone of Imoen!!!
I leave her always with her "auntie".........

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Fri Apr 26, 2002 7:49 am

Spoiler?

im not talking from a game play perspective becouse magic is so disgustingly unbalanced in soa and tob and I myself (to avoid litteraly eating the entire game solo) avoid taking magic users at all, save edwin (becouse there arnt enough evil npc's)
who gets releived of his 50 extra spells per lvl amulet via shadow keeper

But lets be serios for a moment, Sarevok deserves more props than ANYONE in the baldurs gate series, fighting tooth and nail from nothing to almost sink the entire sword coast into war
Returning to plague his 'brother/ sister' in hell during soa
And finnaly getting himself into a position where his brother / sister or stinky imoen MUST give him a portion of there soul to bring him back to life
And to be threatened by the sod baby sister of the pc' .. what annoys me is that the game "Assumes" you support imoen, the game assumes to much

Dont get me wrong, I still enjoy my evil party purely becouse I can have Sarevok in it and sometimes I forget how soft he has become

I mean if you start an evil party it should be that your traped with Xzar and montaron, and montaron was killed by irenicus in stead of khalid or something like that
I hate jaihera and Khalid so much that after the first time I played bg, I never even went inside the friendly arm. I just killed that wizard guy for the xp and went on to the ankheg feilds after going to neshkal to kill dynaheir
So, I got news for you minsc. Dynaheir is already dead.. I killed her in bg 1

the pathetic implementation of 'good and evil' in soa is the only single thing that lets it down and hey I can think of games with alot more problems than that, its just that liking evil parties and evil rping its a real low blow for me

The general over powering of magic in soa is annoying, not so much in soa as in tob though... but what I dont see doesnt bother me and the monster wizards are just to dumb to pose any threat

Oh and one more thing, this is actually a moral question

Who here would cosider removing Aran linveils loot of ring +2
and replacing kangaxx drop with ring +2 that grants negative plane protection.. am I selling myself short enough to justify altering the game? Are there any other bosses suited to droping such a good item in place of something else good?

smity · Post by **smity** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 2:16 pm

hey, gnome, rant on this, WHY ARE THERE NO PURE THEIVES IN ToB, Jan sucks, I like Immie and Nalia, but their theiving skills are not that good WHY CAN'T KORGAN BETRAY YOU, HE SEEMS THE TYPE, WHY YOSHI, AND WHY DOESN'T HE REPENT, I COULD RELEASE HIM FROM THE GEASE, PROBALLY SO WHY DO YOU NEED TO KILL HIM, IT IS MINDLESS SLAUGHTER (NOT TO MENTION WAY TO EASY)

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:56 pm

Originally posted by gnomethingy
lol I can imagine a baldurs gate 3 where you can have irenicus in your party and in form with the legendary evil guys becoming lousy wimps syndrome he will say things like

"I Dont think I can be caged!"
"I can probably not be contained!"

"Silence dog! Your only purpose is to die by my hand!!! If thats alright with you..."

That's funny.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:14 pm

now wait just a frigging minute here...without spells, and mages, i simply will not play bg2...the complex intereactions of spells and mages, is literally the only reason i am still even interested in bg2... I love spells!!!

i love setting up mass execution style chain contingencys among my npcs, and i only ever play sorc or bun bun, who is a kensai sorc, and while its rediculously easy, heck, these days i only install the game to enjoy the well crafted mods...though eclipse kicked my butt, i have foigured out a evil way to win...but my fondness for magical solutions is well known...

as for saverok...pfeh!!! i even dropped keldy and korgy...minsc i kept for pure fun...
i do admit to being curious as to an all fighter type party,

chloe, rowan and maybe valen might be fun, but i love immie, she is so cute and cool, especially since i replaced her standard pictuer with a much more appealing one...

but if you want evil, play planescape...or fallout...

bg and morrowind both give outrageous bonuses to being nice,...you just accept it, or if youre good enough, make a mod!!!

Gnomethingie's mod of evil!!!

all questshave been rewritten to allow a dirty sociopath to gain all the good stuff playing evil...

Querschen · Post by **Querschen** » Sun Jul 14, 2002 11:48 pm

6 reasons to have an evil party.

Evil Thief/Fighter dual or multi class, half orc if you are multi (make sure you get blackrazor)
Korgan with crom faeyr and axe of unyeilding
Sarevok with Ravager or Staff of the Ram
Cernd not caring if you are Evil or good
Viconia satisfying all sexual needs then healing you (in that order)
Edwin having more spells than any 2 good spell casters

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 2:00 am

Since Sarevok plays too great a part in this thread, I suppose it should be called, ToB moral questions. Right, gnomethingy?

Locke Da'averan was also right: usually you don't add this simple word, SPOILERS, in your posts. However, Buck has written a sticky on the very top in which he says a couple of things on this. It's called "Read before you post".

I'm telling you these in a friendly manner and as a warning, because I think you shouldn't like seeing neither fable nor Buck in a bad mood.

Cheers

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:59 am

Im sorry anomen, I hereby renounce the path of evil forever.....

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 5:55 am

Originally posted by gnomethingy
"I Dont think I can be caged!"
"I can probably not be contained!"

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:51 am

Keep it friendly, folks. After all, the only object of discussion is a game, and opinions are being voiced. In the eyes of the great god Bioware, you're all equal.