The Lame Dream Team

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:01 pm

All right, what's the worst team you guys can think of out of all kits and classes available? Party of six, every character with a different kit, and preferably no two belonging to the same class division (ex. try not to have an Avenger and a Shapeshifter, both Druids, on the same team).

Here's mine, being specific when necessary:

1. Wizard Slayer - when a character with such a job title sucks at his own job, you know he's lame.
2. Beastmaster - don't make him human; don't allow him to escape his single-class suckiness by dual-classing to cleric.
3. Diviner - crappiest mage ever. what a waste.
4. Jester - what a joke, no pun intended.
5. Shapeshifter - ever played Cernd? then you know how useless this kit is.
6. Straight Thief - totally obsolete in the face of far superior thief kits and great multi- and dual-class thief combos.

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:24 pm

How about a party of six Wizard Slayers?

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 12:34 pm

Originally posted by Impaler987
...
and preferably no two belonging to the same class division (ex. try not to have an Avenger and a Shapeshifter, both Druids, on the same team).
...

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:15 pm

And whats wrong with a wizard slayer? the magic resistance works at higher levels, I know, I was almost dead, cast a healing spell on my character, and read the line "magic resistance" or something to that effect just before I bit the big one.

In my own defence, it was the only spell that had ever not worked on my character up until that time. Probably because it wasn't an offensive spell aimed at vaporizing me.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 8:31 pm

Impaler987, given your requirement that the "lame dream team" cannot include two or more characters from the same class, my choices would be very similar to yours. One big difference is that I would choose a Transmuter or an Enchanter over a Diviner. Diviners can't cast Conjuration/Summoning spells, but I don't use summoning spells or Power Words all that much, anyway. Besides, there's always Animate Dead, Mordenkainen's Sword, etc. Transmuters can't cast Abjuration spells, which makes them useless against enemy Mages. (Imagine that!) Enchanters can't cast Spell Trigger, Contingency, etc, or other spells from the Invocation/Evocation school, including several cool offensive spells. All in all, I'd have to give my vote to a Transmuter.

1. Wizard Slayer
2. Beastmaster (I wouldn't play one even if she were dualled to a Cleric)
3. Transmuter (See anyone who can cast Wizard spells? Run!)
4. Jester (I like the bonuses granted by other Bards' songs)
5. Totemic Druid (there's something to be said about Greater Werewolves with Iron Skins)
6. Thief (no kit)

The party is already weak without a good Cleric who can turn undead. You can make it even weaker if you play without a Thief as well, perhaps substituting an Undead Hunter for the Thief.

Why don't you start a new poll asking, "What's the weakest party you've ever actually played with?" Let's separate the munchkins from the role-players.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 2:53 am

Ive played with six theives, no kit from soa to tob....

It was fun, if hard.... Had to use MUCH trap cheese

Khazad · Post by **Khazad** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 4:03 am

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....TRAP CHEEEEEEEEESE........

Querschen · Post by **Querschen** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:32 am

I decided to take you up on this thread but I have a party of NPCs I took along and they struggled most of the time if not all of the time.

Myself (I was a berserker but I guess Wiz. slayer is worse)
Anomen
Jaheira
Jan
Haer'dalis (he was not helpful until improved bard song)
Aerie

This group has all the elements of a classic group (fighter, thief, bard, cleric, druid, and mage) and was well balanced beginning to end. I enjoyed a lot of the conversations they had but No one besides myself could fight decently well until anomen acquired FoA and Crom Faeyr.

This party isnt as crappy as some of the other ones you selected but it is NPCs.

PS I loathe Jaheira, I finally got her to level from 14-15 as a druid (1.5 M XP to 3.0 M XP) and she gets a ridiculous amount of spells i think 3 5th level, 4 6th level and 5 7th level but this was in the THRONE OF BHAAL and I had already beat up Melissan TWICE!!! GRRRRRR

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 11:05 am

Querschen, please edit the last line of your post above. The name of the character you mentioned is a major spoiler.

Rattman · Post by **Rattman** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 12:17 pm

i like undead hunters

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 12:25 pm

Originally posted by Querschen
I decided to take you up on this thread but I have a party of NPCs I took along and they struggled most of the time if not all of the time.

Myself (I was a berserker but I guess Wiz. slayer is worse)
Anomen
Jaheira
Jan
Haer'dalis (he was not helpful until improved bard song)
Aerie

This group has all the elements of a classic group (fighter, thief, bard, cleric, druid, and mage) and was well balanced beginning to end. I enjoyed a lot of the conversations they had but No one besides myself could fight decently well until anomen acquired FoA and Crom Faeyr.

This party isnt as crappy as some of the other ones you selected but it is NPCs.

Anomen and Jaheira kick ass. Aerie's a very well-balanced spellcaster. And the berserker is a really good kit (as far as fighters go); you would've been much worse as a wizard slayer.

As far as I can see your two weakest links are definitely Jan and Haer'Dalis. But your party overall is actually quite strong. You can do worse, c'mon!

Nygma · Post by **Nygma** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 6:17 pm

Originally posted by Impaler987

But your party overall is actually quite strong. You can do worse, c'mon!

Try this one. My first time through I had:

Me, monk
Mazzy
Haer'dalis
Imoen
Aerie
Viconia

Until about the time my monk hit mid-high teens, this party was really weak, melee-wise. The lower level monks can't hit and can't take a blow. Haer'dalis... well, he wasn't much better. Mazzy was my tank, so her 5 stars in shortbow were pretty much wasted. On the plus side, I had a lot of spellcasting.

Of course, by the time I reached TOB, my monk was a one-man wrecking crew with 100+% MR; Viconia was wielding the Crom Faeyr while wearing the best -2AC armor I could find which, when combined with her dexterity and a shield, made her a fairly effective second tank. Haer'dalis, as mentioned, becomes MUCH more useful once he gets Improved Bard Song.

But man, some of those earlier battles...

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 9:06 pm

I once played a party of troubadours all the way through Shadows of Amn. It was great role-playing fun. It was all about attitude.

Blade
Jester
Skald (they were siblings)
Haer'Dalis
Aerie (her vocals improved quite a bit)
Imoen (on tambourine; she was with the party from when she was rescued until she was, uh, made whole again)

They were awkward at times, but they did finish the game successfully. The Demon Knights in the Underdark were really tough, but the Balor was a piece of cake. (5 Lower Resistance and 10-20 Magic Missile spells while a Blade distracts the enemy with a Defensive Spin are very effective in many situations.)

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 10:25 pm

I played with a party of thieves aswell. A bountyhunter, an assassin and a swashbuckler. They were not superstrong but surprisingly effective.
I have to stand up for the wizardslayer... with ToB installed this kit really shines. However if you only have SoA they are crap. The beastmaster is obviously weak. Bards on the other hand are not weak.

Perroxx · Post by **Perroxx** » Tue Jul 16, 2002 10:57 pm

Ok, what about this...

Started a MP game. 2 chrs I didn't spend much time on creating 'em, so here they are:

"RollOver" - Gnome Barbarian

Str 9
Dex 10
Con 8
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 13

Found out that he really didn't like fighting, but wanted to be a philosopher...

"Sir Ina Bukket" - Half Orc Sorcerer (ok, I used SK... but just for this)

Str 19
Dex 13
Con 8
Int 6
Wis 11
Cha 5

This poor man was born with magical powers and really wanted to use them, but... he's not very good at it.

These guys had to run through the first dungeon because they wouldn't survive a fight!
It took some time, but they did it.
The first thing they did in the Promenad was to buy beer for all their gold and then, when the party was on, Bukket summoned a familiar to have something to play with...

The Cowled wizard never knew what hit him. He had just informed the drunked Bukket that magic wasn't allowed, when an angry ferret bite him in the b***.

More wizards were summoned and, needless to say, i had to start running... again.

Don't know what happend to them lafter that, but I'm sure they're not around anymore...

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:00 pm

Originally posted by Bruce Lee
I have to stand up for the wizardslayer... with ToB installed this kit really shines. However if you only have SoA they are crap.

I don't find wizard slayers useful even in ToB. They still can't use all the nifty magic items you'll find; that's a major strike against them to begin with. And it certainly doesn't help that other classes are much better at his own job:

The stalker (especially w/ Cloak of Non-Detection and Celestial Fury) can kill mages w/ backstab before the battle ever starts, and then unlike a thief can more than hold his own in melee combat with the mage's fighter flunkies until reinforcements arrive.

The inquisitor ... do I really need to explain him?

Hell, any paladin is better at killing mages than the wizard slayer (Carsomyr or Purifier dispel and MR). The inquisitor's just the best out of all of them.

The archer's enhanced missile attacks can disrupt spellcasters like nothing else, and mages, even in ToB will also die after 3-4 of an archer's arrows. Especially useful after the inquisitor's dispelled all contingency and spell trigger protections.

With an inquisitor, an archer, and a stalker in your party mages don't stand a chance. If you want to create the weakest party definitely don't include one of these guys on your team. The wizard slayer, on the other hand, can't do anything of the sort. He's just pathetic, IMO.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:28 pm

Have you played a wizardslayer through ToB? I soloed one through SoA and ToB. Much easier than expected. For instance this guy is the man when it comes to taking down beholders. 100 % MR helps alot and the elder orbs wont ever be able to cast their imprisonment at you cause of the spell failure.
The Inquisitor is ofcourse very useful but his dispel dispels everything. Your buffs aswell as the enemies protections. In ToB I find it more useful to use remove magic from a bard.
So teams with a bard and a wizardslayer will be exceptionally strong, actually anything with 6 partymembers and one of them being a bard is going to be unstoppable by TOB, provided you know how to use your bard.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 12:54 am

Wizardslayers cop an unfair amount of stick, there a good class if you stick with them, just dont expect anything right off the blocks

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 7:56 am

If you put all the neutral characters into one party:
You
Jaheira
Cernd
Haer'Dalis
Jan

That party might work for some people, but for me? I like tanks....lots of tanks, and as long as I have a mage that can cast breach.......

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:40 am

well, a party of jester kits is my nomination....

you guys knew that was coming from me, eh???

hate bards...