Okay this has REALLY been bothering me. I've been wondering about this since it was evident in BG2. I figured it was just a spelling mistake and shrugged it off, but now that Neverwinter Nights has come out, I find that it is a consistent problem. But I'm not completely sure, so I'm asking whether this is a problem or not.
So...
Here's my train of thought using example words to begin:
"Kill" --> Noun = Kill (Ex. It was my first kill)
--> Verb = To Kill (I killed you)
--> Subjective = Killed (I was killed by a demon)
"Fast" --> Noun = Fast (Hold fast, steadfast, as in immobile, not quick)
--> Verb = To FastEN (Fasten the boat to the dock using the rope)
--> Subjective = Fastened (The boat was now fastened to the dock
And now we get to my problem:
HASTE --> Noun = Haste (Haste makes waste)
--> Verb = ???
--> Subjective = ???
So here's my problem. In BG2 and NWN, the spell and the state listed as haste. But someone under that spelled is said to be HASTED. I'm sure that can't be right because it would suggest that the verb form of the root word was HASTE.
I think it should be:
Haste --> Noun = Haste (Haste makes waste)
--> Verb = Hasten (I hasten my stride to catch the bus)
--> Subjective = Hastened (I was in a hastened state all through high school)
Ummm.... My point is that it should be hasten and hastened and not haste and hasted. But I could be wrong. I asked my family and they said it should be hasten and not hasted.
So is it a grammatical error or is this some sort of AD&D convention?
Poor Grammar Or Convention?
-
NightFallMyriad
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:21 am
- Location: Eating Babies.
- Contact:
-
NightFallMyriad
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:21 am
- Location: Eating Babies.
- Contact:
you seem right:
hasten
hasten
-
HighLordDave
- Posts: 4062
- Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 11:00 pm
- Location: Between Middle-Earth and the Galaxy Far, Far Away
- Contact:
I suspect that this falls under the "fuzzy English language grammar rules".
I think the way it works is similar to the words hang (as a means of execution) and copyright.
In the case of "to hang", the correct past tense is not "hung" as in "They hung the murderer at dawn" but rather "hanged" so you would instead say, "The murderer was hanged at dawn".
Similarly, a work is not "copywritten" but rather "copyrighted".
I suspect that in the case of "haste", it depends on whether or not someone is just moving quickly or if they are under the influence of a spell which, in the is case, is a proper noun not a verb. For instance, you might say, "With the clock winding down the Jacksonville Jaguars hastened out of the huddle to the line of scrimmage". However, if Mark Brunell cast a spell in the team while in the huddle, the correct form might read something like, "The Jaguars hasted out of the huddle and down the field with time running out."
I think the way it works is similar to the words hang (as a means of execution) and copyright.
In the case of "to hang", the correct past tense is not "hung" as in "They hung the murderer at dawn" but rather "hanged" so you would instead say, "The murderer was hanged at dawn".
Similarly, a work is not "copywritten" but rather "copyrighted".
I suspect that in the case of "haste", it depends on whether or not someone is just moving quickly or if they are under the influence of a spell which, in the is case, is a proper noun not a verb. For instance, you might say, "With the clock winding down the Jacksonville Jaguars hastened out of the huddle to the line of scrimmage". However, if Mark Brunell cast a spell in the team while in the huddle, the correct form might read something like, "The Jaguars hasted out of the huddle and down the field with time running out."
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
I don't see anything wrong with hasted as opposed to hastened. Though, as you point out, in normal language it's incorrect, I think of it as just another fantasy term. Is stoneskin a word? No. Does that mean it's wrong or incorrect? No. It's just another invented term that we've all come to be familar with. Just as you can't look up the word "lich" in Webster's and hope to find something meaningful, you can't compare a D&D spell-effect like "hasted" against conventional rules of grammar.
Lost Souls: A bereft lover. A masterless familiar. Friends gone their separate ways. Time marches on, and destiny heralds the meeting of comrades old and new. Can they find what they're seeking? Or will the search bring them only more pain?
-
HighLordDave
- Posts: 4062
- Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2001 11:00 pm
- Location: Between Middle-Earth and the Galaxy Far, Far Away
- Contact:
Actually, according to dictionary.com, "addict" can be a verb.Originally posted by Trix
'Addict' is not a verb.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
-
NightFallMyriad
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2002 2:21 am
- Location: Eating Babies.
- Contact:
Exactly the answer I sought, Magnus. It just seemed out of place compared with modern day English, but then this is a world where Shakespear never wrote plays and Goethe never wrote poetry. So who knows what conventions apply in AD&D. It was just a consistency I noticed comparing BG2 to NWN so I thought I'd bring it up since it had been bothering me for quite some time.
Personally, I'd still rather see the state listed as "hastened" and not "hasted." The spell would still be "haste," as my qualm is only with how they think the state of being under the "haste" spell should be written.
Personally, I'd still rather see the state listed as "hastened" and not "hasted." The spell would still be "haste," as my qualm is only with how they think the state of being under the "haste" spell should be written.
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US. 
Lost Souls: A bereft lover. A masterless familiar. Friends gone their separate ways. Time marches on, and destiny heralds the meeting of comrades old and new. Can they find what they're seeking? Or will the search bring them only more pain?
Now that I think about it, maybe there's a more technical answer. "Haste" is a spell, and thus a noun. "Hasted" is a word that describes somebody who is under the influence of a haste spell. That would make "hasted" an adjective. -Minsc flew into battle: hasted, enraged, and ready to kick some badguy butt. This supports the argument that hasted is an invented word, created to describe something outside the realm of real-life experience. Using hasten to describe this something would be incorrect, since hasten is a real word with a completely different usage.
Lost Souls: A bereft lover. A masterless familiar. Friends gone their separate ways. Time marches on, and destiny heralds the meeting of comrades old and new. Can they find what they're seeking? Or will the search bring them only more pain?
I'd not even noticed the "hasted" problem. "Hastened" is far more sensible and may other games have used it.
Black Isle have good writers but their english is not all that great. It's not bad enough to be really annoying, but it stands out occaisionally.
The one I hate the most, which occurs very often and not just in Black Isle games, is:
"This rogue claims to have found the note, but how do we know we can trust THEM"
(this is an example and not a direct quote, there are many more both in NWN and other games.)
Given that you have to pick a gender when you create your character, it would not be too hard to substitute "him" or "her" for "them". In fact, NWN does that quite often, but not always.
Very similar and also common is "They were killed in their sleep" and "They can be found at the inn", referring to one person.
Black Isle have good writers but their english is not all that great. It's not bad enough to be really annoying, but it stands out occaisionally.
The one I hate the most, which occurs very often and not just in Black Isle games, is:
"This rogue claims to have found the note, but how do we know we can trust THEM"
(this is an example and not a direct quote, there are many more both in NWN and other games.)
Given that you have to pick a gender when you create your character, it would not be too hard to substitute "him" or "her" for "them". In fact, NWN does that quite often, but not always.
Very similar and also common is "They were killed in their sleep" and "They can be found at the inn", referring to one person.
Heh. A poem for all of you, heralding back from my days when I actually thought the average person on the internet was educated. It's called "i wunce wuz liek u"
Oooooh, wunce i wuz anul retentive
I jumpzed on n00bz when they'd misspel
I wuz mad grammar nazi on forumz
If u typo'd then i wud raze hell!!!
Oh yes i cud not stand for those errurz
Becuz english iz my secund tung
and when ppl missused "rouge" or "raise"
I'd screem untill i'd bust a lung
I'd rante and i'd rale and i'd mock them
I'd say "go bak 2 secund graid tooday!"
Butt i wuz ruteenly ignorzed then
And wen they nohticed me they sed "ghey..."
And so finnaly i just gave it up
I wuz conkered, wuz vankwished for gud
So i gaive upp and talkzed liek teh morunz
And now when i talk i m understud!
=)
In other news, Hasted is just a product of the fact that when just about any spell gets cast on you, you add an "ed" to the end and use it. Fireballed, chain lightninged, slowed, cursed, hasted. Though hastened is the correct use, "hasted" is used just to make it the same as everything else.
-Cross
Oooooh, wunce i wuz anul retentive
I jumpzed on n00bz when they'd misspel
I wuz mad grammar nazi on forumz
If u typo'd then i wud raze hell!!!
Oh yes i cud not stand for those errurz
Becuz english iz my secund tung
and when ppl missused "rouge" or "raise"
I'd screem untill i'd bust a lung
I'd rante and i'd rale and i'd mock them
I'd say "go bak 2 secund graid tooday!"
Butt i wuz ruteenly ignorzed then
And wen they nohticed me they sed "ghey..."
And so finnaly i just gave it up
I wuz conkered, wuz vankwished for gud
So i gaive upp and talkzed liek teh morunz
And now when i talk i m understud!
=)
In other news, Hasted is just a product of the fact that when just about any spell gets cast on you, you add an "ed" to the end and use it. Fireballed, chain lightninged, slowed, cursed, hasted. Though hastened is the correct use, "hasted" is used just to make it the same as everything else.
-Cross
-
Sirius_Sam
- Posts: 301
- Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 10:56 am
- Location: USA
- Contact: