Gruntboy's guide to dual-classing

[Gruntboy]

Alrighty then. Comments welcome but please, try and keep them to informative posts - no spamming.

The following represents the IMHO of Gruntboy and is not meant to be an exhaustive guide to dual classing.


The rules

Humans only can dual class.
Dual classes must also be viable multiclass characters (its to do with the display buttons). Bards, Monks etc. cannot dualclass.
You must have stats of 15+ in your prime requisites for your first class and 17+ in the prime requisites of the class you are dualling to. (e.g. fighter dualled to mage must have str 15, int 17).
You can pick a kit for the first class but not for the one you are dualling to.
You can only dual class once (i.e. no fighter/mage/thief "triple class").
You must abide by class restrictions (e.g. kensai/mage can't wear armour, figher/thief can wear chainmail but can't backstab wearing it).
Your first class is re-activated after obtaining one level higher in the second class (level 9 berserker>level 10 cleric for example.

There's more - fill in the blanks guys & gals.


The options
(note: style in the following is: first class>second class)

Don't dual from a first class cleric - the kits aren't great and you will limit your cleric spell progression.

Don't dual from a first class mage - you will limit your mage spell progression. *Exception* - mage level 2>Fighter or thief allows that character to use spell scrolls, wands and mage-only items (staff of magi). You only have to use 1d4 for hitpoints for 2 levels and you will have lots of brains to be sucked by Illithids

Dualling from a first class thief kit can let you have a great fighter, mage or cleric with thief skills but you will be forgoing the benefits a high level thief obtains. On the other hand you can maximise thief skill in areas that count quickly and then dual to progress fully in the second class. Because thieves level up quickly you can dual faster but it will therefore take you longer to re-activate your thief skills as every other class levels up more slowly.

Dualling from a fighter kit is popular - you can earn excellent weapon proficiencies and get the benefit of 9d10 + full constitution bonus before moving to +3 HP per level. You can then develop fully as a mage or cleric.

Dualling from whatever into a thief is not a great choice. You can't pick a thief kit (a X class>assassin or bounty hunter would've been great) and you will maximise your thief skills quickly. However, you will be able to dual later in the game (achieve a higher first class) and re-activate more quickly.

Next... specifics

[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Gruntboy]

The Specifics

Dualling from a fighter should be done at level 9. That way you get the max HP bonuses and a 7th weapon proficiency. When selecting new class & proficiencies, be careful not to waste any due to restrictions and doubling-up! You can get max XP as a second class mage and very high as a cleric or thief. But think also about your enrage or kai shot abilities too - are you willing to trade one of these for a few mage/cleric levels.

Kensai 9>Mage 17 works well - both have armour restrictions.
Berserker 9>Mage 17 would require spellcasting armour to be better than the K>M (also, bugs have been reported with B>M). And don't forget the Mage 2>Fighter 19.

Fighter to cleric is not so good with the kensai - as it robs you of armour and edged weapons. B 9>C 20 is an excellent choice. However there is also the option of dualling a ranger (or kit -I would suggest archer) to cleric. Here you can go R 6> C 21 or R 9 > C 19. An Archer might wan't to go for Archer 12> Cleric 15 for those extra Archer abilies (but it takes a long time to re-activate). Added benefits of the R>C include druid spells.

Wizard slayer as a first class Kit is poor given that by dualling you can use magic equipment for mages & clerics. Still, a Wizardslayer>Cleric could prove to be a brilliant holy magekiller with high MR and disruption (enhanced with cleric spells).

The only other one I feel worth mentioning here is a Totemic Druid>Fighter. I wouldn't bother with the other druids. But a Totemic Druid can dual at 6 (2 spirit animals) OR 11 (3 spirit animals) to fighter 19; or Druid 12>Fighter 18 for the extra spells. Pretty awesome.

I take Xandax's point (below) re: X class> thief, so read that for the guidance. I still don't think this is an efficient use of fighter or thief skills.

Also, cleric>thief or vice versa, some people have reported backstabbing with blunt weapons, so go for it!! Only thing is, thief> mage or cleric combos have poor weapon proficiencies. Thief>fighter is much better in this respect.

Next & Last - dualling thieves to a second class.



[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Xandax]

Well I would say that dual into a thief from a fighter is a great option.
even if you can't take a thief-kit, the increase in HP and TACH0 and proficies makes this well worth while.

Another thing - I've in BG1 (haven't kept the PC) had great fun with a lvl. 2 mage dualed to a fighter - you get a fighter that can use wands - liked it a lot and think I'll give it a try again

[Angelus]

Is there any way to dual a lvl.2 mage to thief in BG2, without importing characters from BG1?

[Edwin]

What about the so long discussed ranger/cleric?????

And what about the one i love most: kensai/druid???? (easier regain of kensai abilities+great defencives spells...)

------------------
Edwin, mighty founder of the Council of Mages

[Bruce Lee]

Dual from a cleric isn't that bad. Priest of helm dualed to mage at level 10 is a great character.
One of the best fighter classes is the swashbuckler dualed to fighter at level 10.
You get less hps but three better ac and two better thac0 and damage. You also get four extra slots, three of which you can place in dual wield.

------------------
Proud member of the Brotherhood of the woods.

[Gruntboy]

Points taken all. Keep 'em comin'. This is only Grunt's IMHO anyway.

Mage 2 without importing? Try Shadowkeeper. Begin as mage. Shadowkeeper your XP to a lvl2 mage. Then dual class and shadowkeeper XP back up to starting level?

Good point though - you need BG1 or shadowkeeper for some of these dualling options.

Thieves coming now:

More specifics

Dualling from a thief is tricky but an excellent choice. Using equipment you can max out important thief skills as low as level 5. You can go as high as 14 and still dual to fighter. OR 15 and still dual to a cleric.

Its a balancing act between picking useful kit skills, thief skills and re-activating these thief skills in time.

Dualling a thief to a cleric or mage gives great spell abilites. To a fighter will give you awesome backstab ability.

That's it from me on this issue. Keep 'em coming folks, I just wanted to get it all down in one place - lets not argue over who thinks what dual class is the best - keep to the facts.

[This message has been edited by Gruntboy (edited 04-05-2001).]

[Bruce Lee]

Ah yes the mage dualed to fighter at level two. Better than a fighter in every possible way. Find familiar makes up for the loss in hps. Only problem is that casting from scrolls is implemented so that casting level is set to 10 by default for thsi character. Not for all spells but for many spells.
You can do it in bg2 if you use shadowkeeper.

------------------
Proud member of the Brotherhood of the woods.

[Edwin]

About Archer/Cleric: why archer.....aren't cleric not able to use bows???? or, when you regain your previous abilities you'll be able to use bows???? (never dualled a cleric)
If you can use bows, i'll try it!!!!

------------------
Edwin, mighty founder of the Council of Mages

[Gruntboy]

Ranger>cleric is there - you didn't give me time to finish.

Kensai>druid - fair enough but you are limited by the druid's XP cap. (Throne of Bhaal?).

Cleric> class X - you're hamstringing the priest spells.

Swashbuckler> class X, I ain't going inot the thieves in that detail, someone else can do it - there are too many variables to lay it all down.

Its defintely a tigh choice over thief kits, skill allocations and when to dual class

Archer>cleric - no bows, and you can only ++ in sling (as opposed to +++++ in bows - which I think is a waste anyway) but you still get the called shot and archer bonuses on *any* missile weapon.

[Nighthawk]

When dualing Fighter to Thief I recommend going to level 13 first. The drawback is that you spend a lot of time as a single class thief (with bonus hp) but the end result is better. You get the full attacks of a fighter and good Thac0 along with the backstab x5 that thieves get at level 15.

[Craig]

Ive tryed cleric in bg 1,2 and multi all good i like the fact that the makers didnt hamper the abilitys
But O wise waxed one is bounty hunter cleric good??? and at what lvl?

------------------
My soul may be warped by evil;My conscious by bribe, but the true path has never vanished for i have Just heart and kind way.

[fable]

Nighthawk, there *is* a way to accelerate the process of getting back that first class after you've dual'd, but it's cheesy.

Simply cut your party down to two (if you're not a mage) or yourself (if you are). Then read all the spells you've gathered over a few quests. At the very least, your NPC should reach level 7 or 8 (with two characters in your party) or possibly level 10 (with one character).

[fable]

Nighthawk, there *is* a way to accelerate the process of getting back that first class after you've dual'd, but it's cheesy.

Simply cut your party down to two (if you're not a mage) or yourself (if you are). Then read all the spells you've gathered over a few quests. At the very least, your NPC should reach level 7 or 8 (with two characters in your party) or possibly level 10 (with one character).

[The_Pope]

THE POPE'S GUIDE TO SOLO DUAL CLASS

Alright Gruntboy, my time. Your information is correct, but I guess most of us already knew that. I will now explain the 3 most popular solo classes. It (accidently?) happens to be that they are all dual classes. I learned this information on various message boards.
Here we go.

1) Kensai/Mage

On many sites considered the most powerful. I don't object, although I don't quite agree neither. Different classes have different advantages and disadvantages. Never tried it out, but this is how it works.
Dual from level 9 kensai. It means that you max out on your hit dice (9 of them, before you start getting 3hp/level), and various of the kensai's unique abilities are quite beefed up at this point.
The cool thing about kensai/mages is that wizards can finally be a part of the action. The kensai's restriction to use armour is quickly overcome, as you can use the insanely powerful Robe of Vecna (I think?).

How do you want to create your character?
Two Weapon Style is nice, but you might prefer Single Weapon Style because of the AC bonus it gives you. Katanas are probably the best way to go, with Celestial Fury, and later Dakkon's Zerth Blade.
Must spells are Stoneskin and Monster Summoning.

Good character, but boring as hell, IMO.

2) Ranger/Cleric

Very interesting class. Stalkers are nice too because of the few mage spells they get. They can also backstab, but note that they can only do this with thief weapons. Since most blunt weapons (the cleric's restriction) aren't thief weapons, you'll have to do with the club. Not the most powerful weapon.
Straight rangers on the other hand can use heavy armour, which is nice.

This class is so great because it can use ALL priest spells, i.e. both the cleric's and the druid's. Good druid spells include Insect summoning, Iron Skins, and Elemantal Summoning.

I prefer the ranger/cleric over the berserker/cleric because of the fact that they have stealth, racial enemy, druid spells, and the Moondog Figurine , one of the best items in the game, especially when soloing.

3) Swashbuckler/Mage

Ah, the most interesting one. Surprised? Then listen to this.
Swashbuckler/mage is a completely different style of playing then you've ever played before. Honest! Here's why:

The 2 previous dual classes have trouble with traps. Not a big deal, you think, but if you add the fact that thieves get XP for disarming traps and opening locks, then you know this is nice in a solo game. The thief is the perfect class to dual from, since at a certain given time, you'll have maxed out your important stats. Also, if you do have to fight, swashbuckler is the perfect kit, since it gets some nice combat bonuses. Try to avoid bif battles though. Use stealth to get past your enemy. You don't have to kill them anyway. This class doesn't get its XP from combat. That's right.

As said before, thieving skills grant you XP. They also grant you money (pick pocket). No more need to fight. Also, memorizing mage spells gives you even more XP. Completely different gameplay, remember?

So you get your XP from thief skills and mage spells. You get your cash from pick pocketing. So you can get even more XP by buying scrolls and memorizing them. You should try this class out, it rocks. Dual at swashbuckler level 10, since that's when you get some combat bonuses.

How to divide stat points:
STR & DEX should be 18, as well as INT
CON 16
WIS 10, you don't want a lore penalty
CHA can be anything you want, use the Ring of Human Influence

How to divide thieving skills:
Before you dual:
pick pocket should be 80, when you go on a thieving spree, use the Gloves of Pickpocketing
detect traps 75, if there's a trap you can't disarm, use Ring of Danger Sense
open locks, about 80, and have a Knock spell ready
hide in shadows/move silently should be as high as possible, since you want to sneak past enemies
the other stuff is quite irrelevant

Items:
The ones mentioned above.
You probably noticed that there are a lot of rings involved, especially if you're planning on wearing Ring of Gaxx. No you can't wear your beloved Rings of Wizardry/Acuity. You'll want to swap a lot, making these rings worthless.
Dakkon's Zerth Blade will do fine in giving you some extra spells. Later on you might want to swap to Staff of the Magi, so have some skill points in staff too.
Robe of Vecna, and later Bladesinger Chain.
Boots od Speed duh...
Cloak of Mirroring, for the ultimate protection.
And whatever suits the situation...

Try it out. I have, and it rocks. It's totally different from anything you've played before, if you play it right. But I've said that already.

[UberJason]

Wouldn't it be better for a Swash/Mage to put all points in traps/lockpick/pickpocket and use invisibility to get around enemies until you get the staff of magi. (Free invisibility)? That way you wouldn't have to trade rings as mush and could wear the rings of Wizardry and Acuity.

UberJason

[Kovi]

I agree with the Swashbuckler/Mage: this character is quite easy to play with (was my first solo character).
A Berserker/Mage is (at least) as good as a Kensai/Mage and a Berserker/Cleric is (almost) as good as a Ranger/Cleric.
And I think both dual Cleric(Kit)/Mage and Specialist Mage/Cleric could be good (eg. the Conjurer/Cleric (10,20) is probably the best supporter character).

[The_Pope]

Originally posted by UberJason:
Wouldn't it be better for a Swash/Mage to put all points in traps/lockpick/pickpocket and use invisibility to get around enemies until you get the staff of magi. (Free invisibility)? That way you wouldn't have to trade rings as mush and could wear the rings of Wizardry and Acuity.

UberJason

Not really, since you really want to wear the Ring of Gaxx. And the Ring of Human Influence when buying/selling stuff.
BTW, the Staff of the Magi is only available VERY late. You're soloing, and that is probably the hardest fight in the game, since there are no real tactics to defeat those guys (Firkraag has the Magic Resistance/Lower Resistance/Breach/Finger of Death way, and Kangaxx is a wuss when using Spell Immunity: Abjuration).

[Mielikki]

what u guys think of a fighter/assassin?
1. is it possible?
2. how would u distribute skills/abilities
3. what level to dual?

thanx for thy help

------------------
~Goddess Of Forests and all Rangers~

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Mielikki:
what u guys think of a fighter/assassin?
1. is it possible?
2. how would u distribute skills/abilities
3. what level to dual?

thanx for thy help

Not possible, then it should be an assassin dualed to fighter .