Drow question

hwttdz · Post by **hwttdz** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:16 pm

I know a lot of people are really looking forward to playing drow so I don't want to offend anyone. I hate drow because of their cruelty I'm not an evil person. What I really don't get is duergar and svirfneblin both have a cha penalty, -2 and -4 respectively. I can understand that of the dwarves. I really don't get the gnome one as in BG 2 they seemed really nice and all. However drow on the other hand have a +2 modifier to cha. How much sense does that make that the drow have +6 in comparison to the deep gnomes? Another thing is drow and gnomes have 11+ level magic resistance and gray dwarves have none. All this makes me think that the drow is just overpowered. They are considered 2 levels higher for advancing but the deep gnome is considered 3 levels higher.

I saw floating around once that it would be easier to modify this game. Does that mean that one could change the drow +2 to -2 and then maybe only penalize them by a level? could one do this easily?

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:01 pm

Originally posted by hwttdz
I know a lot of people are really looking forward to playing drow so I don't want to offend anyone. I hate drow because of their cruelty I'm not an evil person.

Not all drow are evil (look at Drizzt), just the vast majority. Most players however tend to play good drow (Drizzt clones).

Originally posted by hwttdz
What I really don't get is duergar and svirfneblin both have a cha penalty, -2 and -4 respectively. I can understand that of the dwarves. I really don't get the gnome one as in BG 2 they seemed really nice and all. However drow on the other hand have a +2 modifier to cha. How much sense does that make that the drow have +6 in comparison to the deep gnomes?

Have you ever seen a svirfneblin?

They tend to be a bit homely. Drow on the other hand tend to look nice (Like Viconia). Cha is suppose to reflect personality and likeability, but realistically I think it’s the drows' good looks that give them the bonus (and explain the deep gnome penalty).

Originally posted by hwttdz
Another thing is drow and gnomes have 11+ level magic resistance and gray dwarves have none. All this makes me think that the drow is just overpowered. They are considered 2 levels higher for advancing but the deep gnome is considered 3 levels higher.

Can't argue with that. Drow are overpowered and the svirfneblin got the shaft.

Originally posted by hwttdz
I saw floating around once that it would be easier to modify this game. Does that mean that one could change the drow +2 to -2 and then maybe only penalize them by a level? could one do this easily?

I'm sure it won't take long for some bright spark to crack the game (Note: In the Forgotten Realms male drow are supposed to get a -2 Cha penalty. Females though keep the +2).

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 2:16 pm

This isn't about trying to match a book, but create well-balanced races whose advantages are attractive enough to make them useful for specific classes. That +2 charisma makes drows an attractive draw for both bards and sorcs.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:05 pm

Originally posted by fable
This isn't about trying to match a book, but create well-balanced races whose advantages are attractive enough to make them useful for specific classes.

If that's so why did BIS switch from the nice and balanced Monty Cook ranger to the much-maligned, woefully underpowered and frontloaded PHB ranger?

I dunno if WotC is insisting they follow the official source material to the letter or what, but so far the races/classes/etc. are almost exactly the same as their source book counterparts (a good number of them broken).

It doesn't look like they're changing anything for balance (unless they've overhauled the races/classes since last time).

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 3:44 pm

Originally posted by Kayless

If that's so why did BIS switch from the nice and balanced Monty Cook ranger to the much-maligned, woefully underpowered and frontloaded PHB ranger? I dunno if WotC is insisting they follow the official source material to the letter or what, but so far the races/classes/etc. are almost exactly the same as their source book counterparts (a good number of them broken). It doesn't look like they're changing anything for balance (unless they've overhauled the races/classes since last time).

I can't tell you that, because I've never even looked at rangers--they're just not a class I ever play, no insult meant. But I can tell you that some of the advanced races do make up for the more extravagant class requirements. Thus, I have a Drow bard and an Aasimar cleric (dreadmaster of Bane) in my beta party, and they're working out very well. I'm not quite sure I understand how they're disadvantage of slower experience is working, though, since they appear to gain experience as quickly as other, more mundane races, like humans and halflings.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 5:29 am

Originally posted by fable
I can't tell you that, because I've never even looked at rangers--they're just not a class I ever play, no insult meant.

Hey, the fact that you're not playing them just shows you have good taste.

The PHB ranger is only good for taking a single level in for the Dual Wielding feats.

Originally posted by fable
But I can tell you that some of the advanced races do make up for the more extravagant class requirements. Thus, I have a Drow bard and an Aasimar cleric (dreadmaster of Bane) in my beta party, and they're working out very well. I'm not quite sure I understand how they're disadvantage of slower experience is working, though, since they appear to gain experience as quickly as other, more mundane races, like humans and halflings.

I've always been a bit leery of the ECL (Effective Character Level) system as a way of balancing powerful races. I hope it works in IWD2 (because it sure didn't in PnP).

DaringCommander11 · Post by **DaringCommander11** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:38 am

Drow get the plus to charisma because they are very good looking and are wise in the ways of lieing. Deep Gnomes (sibivid-something) are average as far as looks and such but like mostly with other gnomes under the earth, thus their social skills suck. Most people will still hate the drow even with their charisma bonus though as the normal reaction for people to Drow is "Kill it!!!!!!!!!!!!" Deep Gnomes are treated like ash colored normal gnomes on the other hand.
And yes Deep Gnomes got the shaft. On average though the Drow are just kick but people. You take an average Drow warrior and an average anyother race warrior and have then fight it out the drow wins 9 of 10 times. Personnally I beleave the Drow should have a race specific feat allowing them to dual-weild weapons of the same length as that is the standard for drow (not just drizzt either.)
People that play the Ranger in PnP do so for ROLE-PLAYING porposes. If your concept is the stealthy dual-weilding warrior them 99 of 100 times you should be a Ranger. They are an interesting class.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 11:53 am

I've always been a bit leery of the ECL (Effective Character Level) system as a way of balancing powerful races. I hope it works in IWD2 (because it sure didn't in PnP).

What happens is, the more powerful, disadvantaged races end up starting with 3000-5000 experience points, instead of much less. So I'm guessing that at some point, when you no longer need 1000 experience points to make a level, they hit the ceiling first. This gives other races a chance to score a few additional levels before that happens.