Mr. Fiscal Conservative

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:03 pm

Let's hear it for Dubyah! The White House has finally announced what many other sources have been saying for some time: that the US deficit this year will be the highest in 50 years. That's right: 165 billion dollars. Although the administration has put the blame on investing in security after 9/11, even other Republicans, seeking election this fall, have blamed tax rebates, the Star Wars debacle, corporate irresponsibility, and Bush's unwillingness to do anything about the latter (thus driving Wall Street down).

Let's hear it for the president who broke for all time the image of the Republicans as fiscally capable!

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 8:44 pm

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Bush will murder any economy, either national or international.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:46 am

I just can't let this quote slide, which I read earlier about the reactions to Bush speech on Wall Street by Bob Monks a coporate reformer.

"Bush isn't a crook, he's just a bad businessman. He's not an idiot, despite what people say, He's just a desperately bad businessman who made an idiotic speech on Wall Street this week"

Also works out as a decent summary of his term in office so far.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:40 am

@ fable, if I may...

...I just got this today. Hope it's okay with you if I post this.

What happens when a bunch of big-business old boys end up holding office? There's a slim chance that they'll be pre-disposed to go easy on corporate crime; they might even have a little red ink on their hands themselves.

It's no secret that the current administration has big ties to big business. Dubya's pocketed a few hundred thousand from stock some years back, but his reporting was less than prompt. And the Veep has been cuddly with a host of high-powered energy conglomerates.

Here's the dilemma: can we trust our elected officials to go after white-collar crime armed for justice, or just content to administer a few flimsy slaps on the wrist?

Check out http://money.cnn.com July 10 issue on Cheney and Halliburton. Sorry I can't catch the addy to make the link.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:27 am

Bush made a new discovery the other day. To solve the global warming, Bush declares that everyone should drive more cars and buy more powerful air conditioners.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Mon Jul 15, 2002 7:42 am

Re: @ fable, if I may...

Originally posted by Maharlika
Here's the dilemma: can we trust our elected officials to go after white-collar crime armed for justice, or just content to administer a few flimsy slaps on the wrist?

It's the latter, for two reasons. First of all, since it is a good 'ole boys network, they each know when all the others have had their hands in the cookie jar. If someone gets elected and blows the whistle on one, he'll cry foul and say something like, "Well you did the same thing . . ." Second, they count of the support of their cronies and buddies, so they don't want to prosecute and have their campaign contributions dry up.

Dubya needs to appear to be doing something, otherwise he just looks like another silver-spooned rich kid taking it easy on his buddies, but the fact of the matter is that he doesn't want to do anything that will rock the boat or disrupt the status quo. That's why he brought out the story of his mother-in-law (?) who lost her life savings in the Enron debacle, nevermind that he either knew what was going on or at least had a pretty good idea that the company wasn't in near as good shape as they cliamed. By associating his extended family with the problem, he appears to be touched personally by the tragedy, when in fact he's just another rich bastard making money off the "little people".

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 19, 2002 6:24 pm

Dubyah's done it again! After having first announced a huge increase in steel tarriffs against Europe to build votes this fall, he's backed off. The EU called his bluff, to the tune of $600,000,000 worth of sanctions that were set to go into effect. (Japan had seconded the EU in this, and promised additional sanctions.) Bush waved tarriffs on an additional 25% of the annual European steel imports (90,000,00 tons--not an insignificant amount) and told the EU that he would provide a final reply concerning the remaining 75% under the tarriff by the end of summer.

All of which adds up to another pie in the face for the unilateralists in Washington. Yes, the US has enormous power, but it isn't alone in the world, and the temper of its allies isn't infinite, either. Backing out of many treaties designed to help the environment, decrease arms sales to third world nations, or increase cooperation among law authorities was bad enough; hitting their economies simply went to far. And now, Dubyah has to either insist on pushing through the tarriffs, which will make the president with the highest deficit in history look even worse, or retreat before Europe and renege on promises to the steel worker's lobby.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 12:04 am

Hmmm, its going to be another round of US Vs. The World when they meet again for the WTO.

I see him increasing the deficit, he has already proved that rebuilding his voter confidence percentage is more important than trade agreements which will affect his country long after he leaves office. I never knew that Cheney and Bush (both industrialist types) could be such a lethal combination.

Well at least with China opening its doors, the alternatives are beginning to gather form. And when Russia works out its mess, I see a lot of problems for the U.S.

Still upset myself about Bush buying the votes from the farmers with huge tariffs against our Aussie farmers who practically have no support at all...

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat Jul 20, 2002 6:43 am

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Still upset myself about Bush buying the votes from the farmers with huge tariffs against our Aussie farmers who practically have no support at all...

But it's okay, because the people of Australia support Dubyah and his War on the Rest of the World 100%. Our PM, "Honest" John Howard said so.

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:31 pm

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
But it's okay, because the people of Australia support Dubyah and his War on the Rest of the World 100%. Our PM, "Honest" John Howard said so.

I recall that you've recently had an election. When's the next chance to slip Honest John out of office?

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:23 pm

Whats the chance that a politician gets stuck with the title honest? Even if it is sarcastic...

As for Dubyah, hes a good ol boy. I think he just doesn't understand why other people don't see things his way. Hes not dumb, just naive I think. And probably a nice enough guy. His approval ratings are dropping, which is no surprise. It appears he could care less what the rest of the world wants to do, but will forge ahead in creating a pax americana. However, it is mentioned before he is an inept businessman. The more he gets involved personally with the US economy, the more damage he will do. His best bet is to step back and let professionals do the job.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:27 pm

Originally posted by Obsidian
His best bet is to step back and let professionals do the job.

I hear Andersen Consulting have a hole in their schedule...

Ode to a Grasshopper · Wed Jul 24, 2002 12:53 am

Originally posted by fable

I recall that you've recently had an election. When's the next chance to slip Honest John out of office?

He may be planning on retiring halfway through, in which case the Treasurer will take over. Not really a big improvement IMO.
The next chance, well, that depends on if that mail-order sniper rifle I've ordered comes through...

I've said too much...

The next election will be in 2005, IIRC, or possibly 2006.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 2:56 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
The next election will be in 2005, IIRC, or possibly 2006.

Way to far away for my own liking, and to get back on the topic of Bush. Anti-Bush sentiments are growing even stronger in the Asian region, mainly stemming from Bush's efforts to undermine and then destroying the 'sunshine policy", which S.Korea was building with its northern neighbour. Throw in the ripple effect that the corporate scandal is having on the Asian economies and we have a few countries rethinking their relationships.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 9:21 am

There seem to be considerable breaks in the Republican ranks this year. Many of 'em are up for reelection, and significantly they're not siding with Dubyah on a number of popular, visible issues. For example, after Bush's manhandling of the economy, the Republicans created a bill they're pushing through Congress to allow full trade on credit with Cuba. This is in opposition to Dubyah's policy, which (grudgingly) allowed restricted trade food and drug supplies for cash-in-hand. Two prominent Republican governors have already led trade delegations to Cuba, in contravention of Bush policy.

Republicans have also joined with Democrats in the Senate to push through a tougher watchdog accountancy bill. Several important Senate seats are up this year, and with Bush's "soft" appearance on corruption in big business, Congress wants little to do with him.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:29 am

Yes, he's a good 'ol boy; that's why many people voted for him. I actually heard people say that they liked him 'cause they could see him sitting down to drink a beer with them. I always looked around at the people I drank beer with and wondered if they would make a good president! Gore's 'lock-box' and 'paying down the national debt' ideas are starting to look pretty good to people now, don't you think?

As I understand it, even the Democrat-backed accountancy bill will be hard to use in court, given that the kind of malfeasance involved is so hard to prove. I'm sure that house and senate Republicans know this, and feel secure in supporting the bill. Especially if more federal judges continue to be appointed by Bush (soft on bid business and anti-abortion, the lot of 'em!).

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 3:26 pm

Hmm, the current internal pressure coming down on Dubyah combined with the considerable external pressure, you think that it may be enough for some sort of.... I don't know, vote of non confidence?

PosterX · Post by **PosterX** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:42 pm

The Republicans aren't who they say they are. When I voted for the first time in 2000 I was decided to actually vote my conscience and voted for a third party that had no chance to win. Some would say I threw away my vote and for the first year and a half I thought I made a mistake not voting for Bush. Now I am glad I did not because Bush is not the limited government free market capitalist many Republicans claim to be. Campaing Finance "Reform", the Farm Bill, steel tarriffs, etc. He's even lost his way in the War on Terror and the Middle East. People critisized Bush for his lack of foreign policy skill but here was a great oppurtunity. All he had to do was tell it like it was, straight from his heart. But he faltered.

One more thing. There have been a couple of posts here saying Republicans = Big Business and by default the Democrats are for the common person. This is not true. The Democrats have just as many ties to big business as the Republicans. You think Bush is a Big Oil man? Go check and see how much stock Gore has in Occidental Oil. Look up Terry McAuliffe and Global Crossing. Tom Daschle's wife is a lobbyist for Boeing. You can find many more.

The message is this: If you want change (whatever you mean by change) you will not find it in the Republicans or Democrats.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 5:55 pm

@ PosterX

I agree to a certain degree. The fact is the demopublicans (As I will now refer to the democrats and republicans based on the observation that they are basically the same pary) are they way they are because of greed.

Now imagine Nader having a good 30 % of votes... imagine him actually having a chance. You better believe big business/hollywood etc would be hitting him up and corrupting the green party just as well. The reason a third party always sounds so good is because they never have anything to loose.

While I will continue to HATE the fact I am forced to vote for the lesser of two evils (i voted nader, like a fool) it is still my choice.

At first I didnt want to vote, but that does nothing. so I voted green, still nothing. I realize that all politicians are corrupt and figure nothing matters. The truth is if you want change, do it yourself. Start small. Help your city out, do stuff within your state. The country is run by big business, your city is run by small business. As Much a PATRIOT I am, the fact is that the government like any other form of power has issues with corruption. Dubya may not be the smartest, but you better believe we would have our own fair share of *****ing to do about gore if he won.

thug

PosterX · Post by **PosterX** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 6:23 pm

Re: @ PosterX

Originally posted by RandomThug
I agree to a certain degree. The fact is the demopublicans (As I will now refer to the democrats and republicans based on the observation that they are basically the same pary) are they way they are because of greed.

Now imagine Nader having a good 30 % of votes... imagine him actually having a chance. You better believe big business/hollywood etc would be hitting him up and corrupting the green party just as well. The reason a third party always sounds so good is because they never have anything to loose.

While I will continue to HATE the fact I am forced to vote for the lesser of two evils (i voted nader, like a fool) it is still my choice.

At first I didnt want to vote, but that does nothing. so I voted green, still nothing. I realize that all politicians are corrupt and figure nothing matters. The truth is if you want change, do it yourself. Start small. Help your city out, do stuff within your state. The country is run by big business, your city is run by small business. As Much a PATRIOT I am, the fact is that the government like any other form of power has issues with corruption. Dubya may not be the smartest, but you better believe we would have our own fair share of *****ing to do about gore if he won.

thug

I would also feel like a fool if I voted for Nader

. I also prefer to call them Republicrats.

First of all there is nothing wrong with business big or small. It's no accident that industrialized and (relatively) economically independent nations have the highest standards of living. We say we have poor people here (and we do) but compared to what? How many poor people in other parts of the world would like to be poor here? Leftist always jabber about separation of church and state but think the state should be involved in everything else. How about separation of economy and state? Education and state? The state corrupts everything.

Also thug there's nothing unpatriotic about distrusting the government. This country was founded on the principal that government is at best a necessary evil.