New to BG2

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:28 am

Re: Ohhhh ... kay

Originally posted by Network Shadow
...I decided to play a Good Necromancer instead of evil. To me that opens up more NPC opportunities and stuff. Though I could be wrong. I think my new party would be my Necromancer, Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheria to start off and then I would replace them after escaping the Dungeon thingy. Who I would replace them with I still dunno.

We can help you with suggestions there too, if you want. My first will be that you don't hesitate to mix the alignements in your party - it makes for funnier dialogues and gives you a larger selection of NPCs to choose from. RPG-wise, a good PC would bring evil NPCs into his party in order to make sure they at least work for a good cause. An evil PC would bring good NPCs into his party in order to use them for his own schemes. My second suggestion would be that you go for a well balanced party which has a bit of everything - that way you can really get all aspects of the game.

Network Shadow · Post by **Network Shadow** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:54 am

Just One Problem ...

Cool! I didn't know you could mix different alignments like that in the game (without something going horribly wrong lol). But there is one problem. The tutorial I went to says that if that is done, gauntlets will be thrown and eventually someone or even a group of people will leave. After reading up on Korgan, I really wanted him in the party to defend my Mage. But, of course, I figured out he was 'too good' of an NPC - meaning of course there was a catch. He makes everyone remotely good leave. So let's say hypothetically I did play an evil Necro:

I think that gives me a starting reputation of 9 but I could be wrong. I grab Imoen, Jaheria, Minsc, and Yoshimo on the second floor I think when I get there. Everything's going great until I finally make it out and search for Korgan. When I get him, I know something bad will happen. And I also wanted Valygar in my party who I think is of good alignment. So how am I supposed to maintain these people without having to break up fights in my party every 5 minutes? I hope I'm not overstating everything, but I do get the impression that that's what will happen.

Back to the drawing board ... x_X

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 8:09 am

Only a few NPCs will fight each other, and even then that is often random, giving you the opportunity to reload and continue to play. If you want a complete list of the less succesful combinations, try to make a search. If you can't find the desired information I'm sure we'll be able to make up a list fairly quick.

All NPCs mentioned in your last post will go well together. Korgan will leave the group if your reputation goes above 18 though. Note that in ToB, no NPC will ever fight another NPC or leave your party because of the reputation.

Ryo · Post by **Ryo** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 8:57 am

The following characters are -not- compatible.

SPOILER!

Minsc and Edwin - This ties in with their initial subplots back in Baldur's Gate 1. After trading multiple insults, they'll eventually eject themselves from your party and try to kill eachother. You can help whoever you happen to like better, and you can then return them to the party.
Keldorn and Edwin - I've never seen anyone mention this, but I'm fairly sure that I came across a dialog between the two while reading Infinity Explorer files, and Edwin basically insults Keldorn for no reason and it escalates.
Valygar and Edwin - I.. think. Not sure about this one.
Keldorn and Viconia - One's a paladin dedicated to eliminating evil spellcasters. The other is an evil cleric. Duh.
Korgan and Aerie - These two won't actually come to blows, but Korgan will basically drive her out of the party.

If I forgot any or I'm wrong on some other count, someone else feel free to correct me.

Anyway.. the concept of a good-aligned Necromancer seems a little weird to me.. a Conjurer or Illusionist or vanilla Mage or even a Sorcerer might make a little more sense, and you'd probably find them more powerful all-in-all than the Necromancer. But if you want to play a Necromancer, far be it from me to stand in your way, right? I'm just here to offer suggestions.

Anyway, if you intend to actually ROLEPLAY as a good-aligned character, it is practically absolutely ESSENTIAL that you keep Imoen in your party, for reasons which I won't spoil for you. For the first half of the game, though, Immie will be unfortunately AWOL, and the main point of said first half is to go and rescue her. Why you need to do all this is another thing I won't spoil for you. It also seems to me like a good character would keep Minsc and Jaheira around, them being fellow good adventurers (Jaheira's actually true neutral, but I personally think that's only due to Druidic alignment restrictions, and she's really some sort of good..), but it's up to your character.

Don't read too much into the suggestions of others, though. Just a pick a character that you personally are comfortable with, and just play through the game, meeting NPCs as you go along. If you find out you like them, stick with them. If it turns out that the NPC everyone recommended happens to be the one NPC you absolutely can't stand, don't go with him. It is a game, after all, and the point is to have fun.

Network Shadow · Post by **Network Shadow** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:01 am

About ToB (edited)

Since I don't think this is the right forum to discuss ToB in I'll make it quick but I've really been thinking about getting the expansion (only after finishing BG2 unexpanded first). Is it really worth while or some 2gig patch :-\

Edit: Ryo must of replied a few seconds before me, keke. In response: the Necro stays ... I realize the disadvantages but I really want it to be my first PC. Second, I can't do anything but agree about the goody necro; as stated earlier, the conversion was to ensure I got a good selection of strong NPCs without risking half my party leaving. If I could find a way to keep my selections together, somehow, and still be an evil necromancer I'd love that so much ...

And let me be blunt about NPCs - I do want males to be predominate in my party and one female (two at the absolute maximum) for romancing purposes. It doesn't make since to me to have several females catfighting over an evil mage when they'll just end up leaving the party anyway. I'm really interested in seeing how the romance between Jaheria and my PC could develop - but I'm leaning towards Viconia for more technical reasons like alignment, both spellcasters, etc. What do you think?

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:02 am

@Network: check the SECOND post of this page (also pointed
in Quitch's signature of course), and see how many things
related to BG2 you can find.
As for the NPCs, there will be indeed troubles with a mixed
party.
If you want to avoid them at all, take (for instance)
Keldorn at Korgan's place.
You have multiple options, luckily!
ToB is a little different (more powerplaying maybe), but to me it's damn fun!!!! Really worth it (and with Ascension installed, the most fulfilling and difficult end for the game....)

@Astafas: I'm not sure I see your points.
I mean, everyone is entitled his opinion, but hey, the mods
are great (I don't speak about things like TDD though, that seem
too much buggy).
The new NPCs, Tashia, Kelsey, and Solaufein are great, even more
credible and fun than the original ones, IMHO (Valygar, anyone?)
They're perfectly inserted in the game.
The only flaw is Solaufein's lack of voice...
(I gave him a PC soundset though, problem solved)
About the mods that improve fights and enemy IA...
What could you have against them?
Ok, I won't suggest them to a beginner, as they provide
a damn challenge for EXPERT players...
But when you know the game, they're a must.
I'm really thankful to Weimer and his Solaufein Mod, with
all its enemies who no more act like idiots
(take the Improved Twisted Rune for instance...).
And I'm thankful to Dave Gaider and all who helped him
for Ascension and the Improved ToB fights.
Probably without these mods I'd be playing another game
by now!
Were you referring to other mods maybe?

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 10:06 am

Re: About ToB (edited)

@Littiz, from a one Wes's mods fan to another - have you tried thr Ritul mod yet?
It's AMAZING with a low level party... Smart enemies, good dialogues, and one tough boss fight....

Ryo · Post by **Ryo** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 10:12 am

I suggest Viconia for your first run, since she fits better with your evil-aligned spellcaster NPC. If you wanted to try out the Jaheira romance, you could do it on your second run, this time with a good or neutral character.. maybe a warrior of some sort.

Network Shadow · Post by **Network Shadow** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 10:40 am

Coolness

Agreed.

Now wish me luck!

Hesperus · Post by **Hesperus** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 10:45 am

@ Ryo and Newwork,
It seems to me that a good aligned necromancer could be totally approriate. The PC is a bhall spawn, born with a facination with blood and death in his/her bones, but thanks to the patient and enlightening upbringing by Gorion back at Candlekeep, s/he could well have avoided being evil. (NS, if you havn't, I suggest doing the BGI-BGII series while importing your character to really get the most from the game's plot). I was a good necromancer once, it was fun. S/he would just be in the minority as far as necromancers go. I don't think it is important if a necromancer is not the most powerful mage, all they are barred from is illusion (sure that can keep you from some protective spells, but if the mage is one who is courageous and needs no such assistance...). And afterall, clerics are largely necromancers of a god-serving sort.

Overall, I think the role play is what is essential, so I think Ryo is right on by saying letting role-play choose your NPCS. However, if you are not sure (there are a lot of cool people to choose from)and would like to see it all in one party, methinks Astafas' party suggestion is well thought out. From my experience and meager opinion, i'd sat the proported PC difficulties are inflated (just don't let your reputation soar goody-goody style in SoA as Astafas stated). I've had a hoot with with Korgan, Madam Viconia, and Edwin, though not all at once with a good PC since there are so many others to play with. The play is especially fun, assuming you like long-winded wise-guy stories, if Jan comes along.

For what it's worth, I think the romance with Viconia (*sigh*) is a great idea. She is open-ended with respect to the PC's alignment (as is Jaheria) and has nerves of steel. However, so does Jaheria-and her multiclass fighter helps in combat, though she will level slower. Overall, you can't go wrong with either, according to my dreamy- eyed PCs. I would just check them both out and see who's class/personality/dialogue/little one-liners you find most appealing as a companion.

And good luck NS!

jcompton · Post by **jcompton** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:04 pm

I'm just going to chime in here and say that I don't see anything wrong with playing with mods your first time through. I quite consciously designed Kelsey so that he would fit in to the rest of the game as though he always belonged. It's up for debate how successful I was in that, but I'm very comfortable encouraging people to try him out their first time playing, and offhand I can't think of a mod that I consider of good quality for a veteran player that I wouldn't also recommend to a new player.

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 12:58 am

Kelsey mod

Though I suggested NS's going first time through the game without mods, I would agree with jcompton about Kelsey.

Kelsey is indeed designed in such a way as to feel as a natural NPC, not an addition, and his reactions are in tune with the game, i.e, he expresses his satisfaction on party's reputation in exactly the same way as the rest NPCs do.

Cheers

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 2:25 am

@Littiz, from a one Wes's mods fan to another - have you tried thr Ritul mod yet?

No, actually I'm in ToB with a too high level party...
Also I read it's not finished yet, so I'll wait a bit eheheh

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:39 am

@Littiz

My point, oh-so-friendly-one, is that some people, as soon as a new player asks for advice, immediately rush to encourage him to download various patches and add-ons, as if were it somehow impossible, or not enjoyable, to play the original game with its original NPCs. This is not the case. As you remember, it took a long time before we saw any custom NPCs, and the game was already the best in its genre before that.

That said, I use many of Kevin Dorner's fixes/patches (Baldurdash) myself, even though I may choose to for example redistribute Imoen's missing thief skill points, or Viconia's missing profiency, differently.

Regarding mixed aligments:

As I said before, this is more or less random, making it possible for you to reload should problems occur. I've had several of the NPCs from Ryo's list together in my party for the same runthrough without their differences getting so far as to them leaving the party and fighting to death.

Regarding good Necromancers:

Contrary to popular belief, Necromancers are actually split into a good and an evil friction. You can read about this in either the Hero Builder's Handbook or Tome and Blood (don't have them available now so I can't check). Good Necromancers concentrate upon upholding life and most often dress themselves in white robes.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:55 am

@Astafas

If people encourage you to download additional elements to a game, without giving their reasons, then why would you assume that this is because they believe, and give the impression, that the game is not fun without them.

Just as logical would the conclusion that these people believe the game to be even more fun with these additional mods, and that they are giving the impression that BG2 has so much more you can add on for your own enjoyment.

Network Shadow · Post by **Network Shadow** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 6:56 am

I know I lack lots of credibility on the issue (seeing I'm the new guy and all) but I believe it depends on what type of player it is starting out. Like with me, I love RPGs, but the very last RPG I played was 2 years ago AND text based, YIKES! This is the RPG I'm playing right after that one, and I just wanna enjoy it and be a part of this discussion and stuff.

Some people want to start out fully expanded with nearly everything perfectly fixed or improved or whatever. But me, I haven't even played RPGs this big before in my life - so if I do run into a bug or something, I'll probably be too stupid to even realize it. I'm just going to try to enjoy the game for what it is and then, after I become advanced like you guys when I finish the game once, come back and patch it up and enjoy the changes to that.

My whole point is it'll be hard for novices like myself to appreciate the mod expansions anyway if you couldn't find anything wrong with the game to begin with. I just learned what D&D meant like 2 minutes ago lol ...

BTW, I am deciding to play evil Necro weeee! It'll be a little more difficult I guess, but that's the kind of RPGer I am (evil mage w00t!) so I know I'll enjoy the game more playing like such.

K K bye!

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 1:35 am

Network Shadow,

I should agree with you. When new to a game, you have to get familiar with it, learn how to play it, how to advance in tactics, confront enemies more efficiently, make a choice between one or another path. In other words, you will be fully busy with such issues that it doesn't really matter if you install mods and add-ons the next time. (I'm talking on first-hand experience here, and I believe I can perfectly understand you.)

Start your game, and if something "unnatural" happens there are a lot of people here to help you out and make suggestions.

Remember to install the official patches before starting.

Cheers

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 2:40 am

@Astafas, it seemed to me to do a nice thing, I
mean, pointing to a list of resources.
You don't know what even a new player may find interesting:
who knows, additional portraits, maybe.
I installed the Grand Mastery Patch as soon as I saw it,
even though I was almost new to game, for a simple reason:
I was a PnP player, and I knew and wanted GrandMastery that way.

I don't see the reason to become sarcastic
(as your "oh-so-friendly-one" seems to me, unless I misunderstand once again, hope so),
I've not urged anyone to install nothing, only offered
knowledge about resources.
If even this raises contrasts, I'll stay quiet then.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:15 am

@Littiz

I assure you that I was not sarcastic. "My point, oh-so-friendly-one..." is a Jan Jansen line when you, upon meeting him, says you fail to see his point (regarding certain turnips, of course). And as you said "I'm not sure I see your points" I couldn't resist to quote. Friends?

As said before, I use many of those fixes myself, and certainly see no harm in doing so.

Network Shadow · Post by **Network Shadow** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 8:53 am

I did download some new portraits though for my player character cuz all the originals either belonged to existing NPCs or I didn't like them at all.

And just an update I have started playing but I accidentally (*wink*) got rid of Minsc from the very beginning saying that we should split up. It's not like I would of kept him anyway, but he would of been a real big help I guess. That left me with Imoen, Jaheira, and Yoshimo (THE COOLEST NPC IN THE UNIVERSE). I put him at the top of the list and he just backstabs like everything. Jaheira leveled up 3 times in the dungeon alone and again after the circus. I leveled up twice to level 9.

I decided not to bring Aerie with me cuz I still have Korgan lingering in the back of my mind. But Yoshimo does a good job without Korgan protecting my Necromancer and Jaheira just uses a sling. I even went out and bought this shield of umm missle reflect or something and now she's immune to missle attacks, I think ...

But I can't WAIT to get Korgan. After seeing what Yoshimo did by himself to those wolf things in the circus, I can't wait to see what the Fighter can do. I will eventually (if not very soon) get rid of Jaheira unfortunately, cuz she's not part of my whole roleplay plot. I'll replace her with Viconia and then take Korgan, Haer'Dalis, and the last one would be Valygar. I don't care if Valygar and Korgan fight, they're gonna stay in my friggin party whether they like or not! Mwahahaha! >8D