The Bohemian Bunkhouse

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:18 pm

Originally posted by Bloodstalker
So, you into THAT kind of thing huh?

Oh yes. I could write a book on how much of a fan I am in losing blood and generally getting the stuffings ripped out of myself....

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Aug 15, 2002 1:21 am

I'd offer intelligent conversation, but it's more fun teasing people.

**Half-heartedly wiggles, then decides he can't be bothered.**

Originally posted by Tybaltus

Either way, Im a winner. I have a way with animals

Originally posted by Aqua-chan

Yep, Avengers fall easily for the guys. Totemics are stronger than that, but let's try not to bring that debate up in here, too, hmm? (Unless it is in your signature. )

LMAO! So says the woman with a thing for Anomen of all people, and BS.

Originally posted by dragon wench
Ysh is right btw.....the corrupting of another is not really possible...since those who become corrupt are malleable to begin with

On the contrary, my dear DW, anyone can be corrupted over a sufficient period of time.

Originally posted by Kameleon
Right. Who wants to start a sweepstake as to how many days this thread'll be open before the Rolling Thunder moves in? I'll take 2 days *puts his $20 into the pot*

**Whispers @Kam** Wait 'til Beldin gets back.

Then we'll see.

Originally posted by C Elegans

You mean like Morlock does in the movie review thread? Oh, that was mean of me. slaps herself on the cheek Bad girl, bad, bad, bad CE

LMAO! It's funny 'cos it's true!

EDIT-almost forgot. **Leans down** Hi DW's navel, I don't think we've met. I'm Odie.

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 3:11 am

LOL @CE. You are a bad person

. LOL...Yeah I have read American Psycho...maybe we can talk about that, in place of intellectual conversation

What I thought was interesting was that the main guy *struggles to remember name* Patterson? I can't remember his name...anyway...*googles it*..Bateman was so normal...I though it was funny that almost any other character from the book (or certainly any of his male friends), could equally well have been the psychopath, and not Bateman...or they may well all have been psychos. His point was made by Bateman's obsession with clothes (which I really like, a little Wolfe-ish I though

) and perfume etc. At first Bateman seemed like a thoroughly insane and obsessive person, because whenever he met anyone he would spend sometimes a page or more just trivialising about their clothes...but as you read, it became apparent that the person he was talking to was almost certainly doing the same to him. It was a nice comment on high-money-society - They all seem to live in a sterile world of cash, where morals are uneccesary. They have never had to think about anything but hedons, and thus, when this guy wants to, he just starts killing people...no motive. I also liked the way he, at no point in the book, had any sort of a crisis about how he spent his life killing innocent people, and yet he was constantly troubled by relationship, minor-drug, and mineral-content of drinking water problems...

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:46 am

@Ode the way you quoted me makes me sound REALLY bad. Thanks a lot. Thats not what I meant....

EDIT-@Ode Didnt notice you crossed the 5k point. Congrats, friend.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:56 am

Originally posted by Tybaltus
@Ode the way you quoted me makes me sound REALLY bad. Thanks a lot. Thats not what I meant....

EDIT-@Ode Didnt notice you crossed the 5k point. Congrats, friend.

Buzzy wants to know why you haven't called, BTW...

Ta. That's 5000 posts of not doing anything productive, not getting any exercise, not walking along beaches by moonlight with a loved one...

What an unproductive creature I've been these past months.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 7:59 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
Buzzy wants to know why you haven't called, BTW...

Ta. That's 5000 posts of not doing anything productive, not getting any exercise, not walking along beaches by moonlight with a loved one...
What an unproductive creature I've been these past months.

Well, Im torn. I dont want to break the bear's heart, but I dont think things will work out between the two of us. I am afraid we're both going to have to move on...

You cant find anything productive to do? What about me? Im here like all day. I dont mind, Id rather be here than school. Only a couple weeks left...

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:06 am

Re: I'd offer intelligent conversation, but it's more fun teasing people.

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
LMAO! It's funny 'cos it's true!

I know, that's why it is so mean!

Congrats to 5K, Ode

@Tybaltus: Hello, have you read American psycho? If so, join the discussion.

@Frogus: I agree with you that Bateman seems totally normal in his sociocultural context - everybody else is the same or worse regarding the obsession and fixations with clothes, designers, status symbols. Bateman kills people, but that doesn't make him seem special - on the contrary it would be fairly easy to imagine any of the others doing the same. It's a world where nothing matters - except the extremely trivial. Do you remember when he is trying to cook part of a girl he has killed, and the description ends with him starting to cry because he fails to make food out of this body part? It is a good scence, because it shows Bateman has emotions, he is not totally cold - it's just that his emotional reactions are not set at what they should be.

It's a good social comment on the 1980's yuppie era, and on the rich, materialistic society in general. I also like when he breaks up with Evelyn, his girlsfriend - that is probably the least characteristic scene in the entire novel, suddenly Bateman cares about not caring about her. Something is stirring in his mind towards the end of the novel, and that leads to his phone confession. Still, you get the feeling that he can never change because the world around him won't allow it.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:08 am

Greetings, CE. Nope never read it.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:36 am

Originally posted by Tybaltus

Well, Im torn. I dont want to break the bear's heart, but I dont think things will work out between the two of us. I am afraid we're both going to have to move on...

You cant find anything productive to do? What about me? Im here like all day. I dont mind, Id rather be here than school. Only a couple weeks left...

That poor bear, not even flowers or anything.

Bears have needs too, you know.

I'm sooo gld to be out of high school, I've taken this year off but it's going to be nice to get back to doing something. A year doing nothing is nice but gets boring after a while.

Thanks @CE. Sometimes the truth hurts, I guess.

Still funny though.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:52 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
That poor bear, not even flowers or anything. Bears have needs too, you know.

I'm sooo gld to be out of high school, I've taken this year off but it's going to be nice to get back to doing something. A year doing nothing is nice but gets boring after a while.

Thanks @CE. Sometimes the truth hurts, I guess. Still funny though.

I remember loving to go back to school.... Buying new school supplies, clothes, make-up... yep, I was the average American teen.

I still look forward to going back. Only this time, I'll be at the other end of the line.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 2:12 pm

@Ode, oh, Ty is fully aware of Buzzy's *snicker* needs *snicker*

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 4:53 pm

I agree...I thought that towards the end, morals started to impose themselves upon him, but I thought it was because of him growing up. Yuppiedom is certainly a young thing...and he was getting old. Maybe he was starting to leave that world, but the fact was (as illustrated IMO by the jellyfish thing at the end), the one he was going into was no better...the media, celebrity etc standards, which had been the only ones he lived by, were being forced out by age, and the only thing left was a man, fairly experienced and mature, but with no morality and no remorse, and no (instinctive) though processes left for proper interaction with other people, hence the chokedness of his last stretch with Evelyn. With no longer being able to talk about the virtues of a pure silk over a silk-cotton Brooks Bros or whatever, he was very empty...there was nothing left in him (I think that went well with the cover illustration of my copy, I'm not sure if yours was the same...*searches for it* - it's a very good painting). Google would only give me this:

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 4:59 pm

Sorry to sound like your mum frogus, but don't you think your a bit young for a book like that? (no offence intended)

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:00 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
Sorry to sound like your mum frogus, but don't you think your a bit young for a book like that? (no offence intended)

No.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:06 pm

I'm just going to have some tea my husband kindly made for me, I'll be back soon, but just a short comment on age and American Psycho: I would think many, probably most 14-15 year olds would be too young to read a book like American psycho, but not Frogus and not myself either in that age. It depends so much on life experience and frames of reference if you can take the violence in that book the right way. Judging from my general impression of Frogus and the analysis he presents here in this thread, I would say he is absolutely mature enough to read that type of book. I wouldn't recommend it to the average 14-year old though.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:12 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans
I wouldn't recommend it to the average 14-year old though.

I wouldn't reccommend it to anyone, it is satirical and very interesting but it is just a bit much, the depiction is too graphic and unnecessary. I don't care how much life experience, context or frames of reference on has it is still over the top.

*takes out "Official prude badge(TM)" replacing "I have a syndrome badge(TM)"*

I don't really care, it was just an observation...

frogus · Post by **frogus** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:28 pm

Sorry, I was only jokun, pets!

Anyway, the book has had, as far as I can see, no bad effect on me whatsoever, and this is all I really need to say as to whether it was suitable for my reading...It is another question entirely though as to whether it was suitable for my reading before I read it, at such a time as I did not know if it would have a bad effect or not. It was a psychologically grueling book, but 2001 which I just saw the other day, was also extremely grueling, and yet noone would dream of giving it a restricting certificate, I am sure. The way that censorship works is that things have to be sensored on quantifiable factors, like the ammount of blood, number of punches etc. This leads to misleading censorship...not based on the actual content or effect of the book/film... I would not let young children read American Psycho, but that is because it is trying mentally. It is a wrestling match in ones brain to read it, to try and comprehend the characters with nothing behind their eyes. The blood I did not find disturbing, nor did I think it was unecessary...sure they could have taken some of it out, but I don't think that would serve any especially useful purpose. And the book, IMHO was more like a small idea...a nice concept, than a story. Leaving the book I was certainly not thinking 'Eurgh, he put her head in the oven!', I was thinking about...well, the things I have written about. The possibility of a society numbing morals in individuals, which is a worthwhile thing to think about, even for quite young people I think, if they can, and have the inclination to think about such things...

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:31 pm

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
I wouldn't reccommend it to anyone, it is satirical and very interesting but it is just a bit much, the depiction is too graphic and unnecessary. I don't care how much life experience, context or frames of reference on has it is still over the top.

It is certainly not one of my favorites, but I think it is a pretty good book in the "using a psychopathic murder to illustrate a sick society" genre. Of course it is overly explicit, Brett Easton Ellis is an American writer and Americans seems to like very clear messages

I would recommend to anyone who enjoys that kind of social comments, and also to people who are interested in forensic psychiatry, since I think Ellis actually portrays psychopathy very realistically, more realistically than any other fiction I have read with the exception of James Ellroy.

@Frogus: I don't remember the end of the book very clear, but I think you are right in that emptiness is a key concept. Alienation is clear throughout the story, and in the end, emptiness sets in and Bateman is left as an empty shell in an empty world...I think it is significant that when he confesses, nobody believes him so he gets no catharsis through confession, there is no way out for him, no way anywhere.

The cover you posted is the same as I have on my copy, it's the only cover I have seen.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:38 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans
I would recommend to anyone who enjoys that kind of social comments, and also to people who are interested in forensic psychiatry, since I think Ellis actually portrays psychopathy very realistically, more realistically than any other fiction I have read with the exception of James Ellroy.

The cover you posted is the same as I have on my copy, it's the only cover I have seen.

The difference i see between Ellroy and Ellis is that Ellroy's gruesome depictions are usually (not always) after the fact, they are quite often an investigating officer, where as Ellis was using his main character and describing things as they happen. I was not actually sickened by any of the depictions apart from his old Girlfriend from high school, if they had just cut all that out (like they did in the film) i wouldn't have a problem with it, but i can't go into details as to why that sickens me but it should be pretty obvious

I actually skipped the entire section, that is when i crafted my "I am a prude(TM)" badge

Same cover i have as well.

BTW i do actually have "I have a syndrome" badge that someone made for me

@frogus, the mere fact that you speak of the content in the way you have pretty much confirms your elligibilty to be reading something of that nature. Would you reccommend it to your friends?

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 15, 2002 5:40 pm

Originally posted by frogus
And the book, IMHO was more like a small idea...a nice concept, than a story. Leaving the book I was certainly not thinking 'Eurgh, he put her head in the oven!', I was thinking about...well, the things I have written about. The possibility of a society numbing morals in individuals, which is a worthwhile thing to think about, even for quite young people I think, if they can, and have the inclination to think about such things...

This I agree very much with, it is a concept book, I think Ellis is using the psychopatic serial killer as a symbol for modern society - a common symbol in contemporary literature and art - and the descriptive scenes are very unpersonal and abstract although they are graphical. Just like Ellis uses the incredibly detailed descriptions of what everybody is wearing, he uses the description of violence to demostrate values in this sick person and this sick society. I think it is obvious that it is an artistic, stylistic trick - but I also believe it takes a certain type of person to view it that way. I know many adults who have stopped reading the book because of the violence, I think some people can't stop themselves from reading it as violence, whereas those who read it more symbolic aren't emotionally affected in a negative way.

An unpleasant thought is of course that such things happen in reality. But most young people know this anyway.