Shadow Dragon?

Gorgan · Post by **Gorgan** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 4:48 pm

I just rescued mazzy and now im up to the shadow dragon. Is there something i get if i kill him? Hes really really hard. I dont know if i could beat him. Right now im invisible to him. Is it worth the risk to kill him or no. Thanks

dios · Post by **dios** » Sat Aug 17, 2002 5:07 pm

You get some pretty nice things if U kill him...Not to mention the exp...=)

Highlightfor spoiler!
You get the CROM Fayer Scroll...that's worth the pain...=)

Nygma · Post by **Nygma** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 2:38 pm

You can always come back at higher level and kill her.

You get some gems and gold and scrolls, but nothing else that you will be able to use right away anyway.

Querschen · Post by **Querschen** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 3:43 pm

If you cant beat em now then you should definitely come back. Cloudkill softens em up a little and then its just a matter of hacking him to pieces and using lower resistance so he is susceptible to minor sequencers of magic missile.

Perhaps you should tell us whom you have in your party, this affects your tactics greatly.

Ambiorix · Post by **Ambiorix** » Sun Aug 18, 2002 6:57 pm

Yes, kill him. If not for the (not all that interesting) items, for the experience or the satisfaction. If you defeated all the shadows and two liches getting there, you should be able to deal with this dragon.

Shadow-dragon isn't really that hard (not in the league of Firkraag). In my experience the easiest to kill dragon in the game.
Several tactics are availiable. Before I got the patch a few cloud-kills (casted from a position out of sight) would be enough. He would just sit there and die.
With the patch: put a few traps next to him (her?) and start hacking. His number of hitpoints is rather low. Your mages casting lower magic resistance always helps.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 12:54 am

Originally posted by Ambiorix
Yes, kill him. If not for the (not all that interesting) items, for the experience or the satisfaction. If you defeated all the shadows and two liches getting there, you should be able to deal with this dragon.

The liches will only appear if you're high level when descending the Ruins. You may in that case also meet some Greater Mummies. If you're low level, the Bone Golem(s) is the toughest enemy before the Shadow Dragon.

Ambiorix · Post by **Ambiorix** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 2:52 am

Originally posted by Astafas
The liches will only appear if you're high level when descending the Ruins. You may in that case also meet some Greater Mummies. If you're low level, the Bone Golem(s) is the toughest enemy before the Shadow Dragon.

Now you mention it, I wondered why in other games I've played there were no liches (or only one?) there. I always thought I had done something wrong (or right). Didn't know it had to do with the level of my party. Thanks.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:00 am

The last time I fought the Shadow Dragon, I found a very easy way to kill it: hold the wardstone, cast Harm, hit it before it turns hostile, then cast Insect Plague or hit it with the Flail of Ages. It's cheesy, but so is using traps or Cloudkill.

Of course, I reloaded and killed it a second time by playing fair; i.e., my character told the dragon she wanted to fight and gave it a chance to defend itself. Since she was soloing the game at that point, I did have her summon a couple of skeleton warriors and a nymph (she cast Death Ward on them to keep them from being killed by a Death spell). They weren't as much help in combat as I would have liked, but they did keep the dragon occupied so that my character could cast spells without being interrupted. (The nymph healed the skeleton warriors). It's a tough fight when you don't have a Mage who can cast Breach. (Incidentally, who the heck would play a Transmuter?) But if you can survive long enough, the dragon's protective spells will wear off. Here's a tip: the dragon can't reach you if you run behind the columns off to the side (you can cast spells or use missile weapons), although you need to watch out for its breath weapon.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 7:46 am

It wasn't my intention to insult anyone by using the word "cheesy" as a description for certain tactics. And I didn't really want to get into an argument over the meaning of the word "cheesy". To me, "cheesy" just means taking advantage of a weakness in the game to make victory easier. It's not "cheating", because, as you point out, it's just a way of using tools provided in the game. I think what it really comes down to is personal preference: I prefer knock-down, drag-out fights to sneaky tricks. If a fight is too easy, it doesn't give me a thrill. On the other hand, I do like to "choreograph" my battles in the sense that I want them to be artful and dramatic. I enjoy being resourceful. A clever combination of spells and tactics appeals to me. I think you could argue that sometimes "cheese" is an art form, and I do have some respect for it. But sometimes it just doesn't seem plausible enough to suit me. For example, I wouldn't expect monsters to stand in a poisonous cloud and let it kill them, and I wouldn't expect monsters to walk right into a trap if they watched me set it. Now, if you set a trap around a corner and lured a monster into it, that would be different, and it wouldn't be "cheese". I also don't think it's "cheesy" to cast Cloudkill into a roomful of monsters and slam the door to trap them inside; that seems perfectly plausible to me. But casting a serious spell like Harm before a monster can defend itself just...doesn't seem heroic enough for my tastes, when I know that I can go toe-to-toe with a dragon in a REAL fight.

In any case, it's nice to have alternatives. You can win the battle any way you choose. That's part of of the fun.

Ambiorix · Post by **Ambiorix** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 9:08 am

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
I routinely use Clould Kill and traps to rid myself of the Cowled Enforcers (set traps, don boots of speed, cast CK right on top of yourself and traps, run out of the cloud, wait for enforcers to materialize, run out of their range of sight - repeat gas treatment if necessary). Those are the "tools" the game came with and I don't consider it cheesy, just easy and efficient.

Good trick! Gonna try that right away.

I hate those Cowled Enforcers! And there's some poetry in them dying by exactly the spell that summons them.

NiteWulf · Post by **NiteWulf** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 12:35 pm

I nice tactic against the Shadow Dragon: just hold the wardstone and get out of his sight, then cast Cloudkill on him while he can't see you - and you can't see him.
Repeat and you just cheesed him to death

Ambiorix · Post by **Ambiorix** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 12:55 pm

Originally posted by NiteWulf
I nice tactic against the Shadow Dragon: just hold the wardstone and get out of his sight, then cast Cloudkill on him while he can't see you - and you can't see him.
Repeat and you just cheesed him to death

That didn't work the last time I confronted him. He immediatly came for me once the spell was cast, though I was out of his sight. It worked on earlier occasions, though.

Maybe it's some patch I installed, or maybe I made the mistake of not entering his sight (with the wardstone, that is) before retreating and casting the spell.

Ambiorix · Post by **Ambiorix** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 3:39 pm

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
I like a good fight, but sometimes its just seems rediculous not to use the equipment and skills your party has available to it.

No need to convince me. I don't consider trapsetting cheesy. After all, you have one less mage or fighter by choosing a thief in your party. Might as well bring his talents to bear.

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
Next time I play Watchers Keep I'm going to try luring the Chromatic Demon into the gas room and locking him in. The last go around I had to throw the kitchen sink at him before he'd croak. Even the traps didn't do much to hurt him.

Were those spike-traps? They did plenty of damage to him in my game. Anyway, will the gas room trick work? Doesn't he regenerate? If it works it's a good trick. BG is a great game for these kind of tricks and experiments.

Querschen · Post by **Querschen** » Mon Aug 19, 2002 11:30 pm

I had trouble with him but I eventually stuck Sarevok with the Dragons breath on him. He was able to do damage to him no matter what shape.

******SPOILER******

Greater Whirlwind helps.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:34 am

Why do some people feel this way about using traps or spells? When then, in your opinion, is using traps not cheesy - or is using them always cheesy?

Traps and pre-buffs are OK, IMHO, as long as you are supposed
to know what will happen next.
I used traps against Demo... I was going to challenge him to
fight.
I consider them "cheesy" when placing them somewhere makes
little sense, from a "party perspective", while you, the player,
know you will need them.

Anyway, @UncleScratchy, gotta love your new avatar!

Been in Florence for vacation?
Nice to feel at home even while browsing the forum.....