Infinity Engine

Henrik Larsson · Post by **Henrik Larsson** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 12:16 pm

I think that the Infinity engine shouldn't be thrown away so easily.There are so many new RPG games around ( NWN , Morrowind ...) and all are graphicly great but is it just me or I am very dissapointed with current games (except IWD2 ).

They just don't give me enough playability.I remember when BG series were in everything was looking so great and I thought that there will be many more games with the same engine.But with the exception of IWD and Planescape there weren't any.

To coclude all this I think that Bioware should make more games based on the Infinity engine ( with 3rd edition rules implemented of course , like in IWD2) and of course thay could change interface and they could improve game visualy but the core , the engone should stay.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:53 pm

Hello and welcome to SYM

Are you Swedish, or did you just use the name of a Swedish football player?

There is a discussion concering the Infinity Engine and IWD2 over at the IWD2 forum, you can find it here.

Henrik Larsson · Post by **Henrik Larsson** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:09 pm

Thanx

BTW I am not from Sweden but from Croatia
Larsson is one of my favourite footy players and at the given moment that was the best nick I could thought of.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:13 pm

Originally posted by Henrik Larsson
Thanx

BTW I am not from Sweden but from Croatia
Larsson is one of my favourite footy players and at the given moment that was the best nick I could thought of.

LOL!

Welcome to the forum, @Henrik. Please feel free to contribute to other threads, as well.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:17 pm

Originally posted by Henrik Larsson
BTW I am not from Sweden but from Croatia
Larsson is one of my favourite footy players and at the given moment that was the best nick I could thought of.

Hehe, yes, he is good, scores heaps of goals for his club team

Hope you will like it here!

humanflyz · Post by **humanflyz** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:02 pm

Well, due to the current obsession with 3D and hi-poly models in the gaming industry, I think IWD2 will most likely be the last game to use the Infinite Engine. IMO, I think it is time for IE to retire, at least for a while. There's 9 games made with it (BG1 and expansion, BG2 and expansion, IWD 1, 2, and 2 expansions, Planescape, and a lot of other big mods), it could get a little bit redudant. Besides, I like to see developers to develop their own engine so that my fifty bucks actually play them to do something new. However, that is not to say that the IE should be competely abandoned. Maybe a public release of the developing tools would keep the legacy of the Infinity Engine alive.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:09 pm

Well I think the engine needs a rest. Although I would hate to see the demise of 2D games as a result. I love my 2D games, and would gladly play them over most 3D ones, who tend to suffer from poor frame rates and even poorer graphic details ruining the atmosphere. But then again, just look at how long Half Life has been going for with all its mods, especially since it was based on the original Quake. Overhaul the engine, but if no one is willing to change it then lets move on.

Well thats my non-answer

Ode to a Grasshopper · Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:05 am

Welcome to GB @Henrik.

IMO the potential for fan-created modules using the IE is quite impressive. Look at some of the BG2 mods out there, for example. I tend to agree with humanflyz, release the toolset and then let Bioware themselves move on.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 6:39 am

If the Infinity Engine teaches us anything it's that a good story and compelling characters are far more important than good graphics. How many 3D games have you played that suck? And wouldn't you rather play a good game that may use an older engine if it's fun and enjoyable rather than just eye candy (that's why I love Rollercoaster Tycoon)?

For instance, BG2 is a far superior game to NWN. Don't even try to argue this with me. However, technically and visually, NWN is a better product, but I am simply not compelled to play it like I was with BG2. If Bioware can contintue to put out good games (and by good I mean games that have a solid story, lots of character interactions and longevity through replayability) using the Infinity Engine, I will continue to buy them ahead of 3D games that lack those components.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 6:44 am

One of the problems with outsourcing the Infinity Engine to smaller Dev's is the pre-rendered backgrounds. It took the artists at Bioware and Black Isle Studios months to draw the characters and the backgrounds, one would not be able to get new scenery and new characters into the games very easily.

Most dev's like TeamBG do their work part time and just don't have the resources to make the beautiful scenery we are used to.

As i said over in the NwN forum, because NwN's tilesets are all the same and dull it at least means one can work on the story and characterisation more, those are the important parts of the BG saga. Frankly i prefer the original BG because it has a better plot line and feel, the graphics are not the important part. Obviously i have no interest in playing a game without visual representation, but it is finding the right balance that is important.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:20 am

I think the reason for NWN's poor story, ineffectual dialog and terrible AI lies at least in part in the time they put towards 3D engine development. I would say great, that means they'll have more time to put into the CRPG stuff that really matters (to me) for the next several releases, but in fact their Star Wars CRPG (under development for LucasArts) uses a completely different 3D engine with a great deal more variety. It looks, IMO, like the NWN engine was essentially cobbled together as a do-it-yourself kit for players, and remains the most underwhelming, overhyped product I've seen yet this year.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:22 am

I completely agree with HLD. I found the lack of interaction really annoying in NWN, and to me it has become more of a hack'n'slash game rather than the RPG it deserved to be.

I am really looking forward to IWD2, mainly because of the IE which, I think, is THE greatest gaming engine ever. Playability just doesn´t get any better.

Henrik Larsson · Post by **Henrik Larsson** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:52 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave
If the Infinity Engine teaches us anything it's that a good story and compelling characters are far more important than good graphics. How many 3D games have you played that suck? And wouldn't you rather play a good game that may use an older engine if it's fun and enjoyable rather than just eye candy (that's why I love Rollercoaster Tycoon)?

For instance, BG2 is a far superior game to NWN. Don't even try to argue this with me. However, technically and visually, NWN is a better product, but I am simply not compelled to play it like I was with BG2. If Bioware can contintue to put out good games (and by good I mean games that have a solid story, lots of character interactions and longevity through replayability) using the Infinity Engine, I will continue to buy them ahead of 3D games that lack those components.

Ain't that true

And maybe even if the engine is getting old and if Bioware want to continue with graphicly attractive games they should at least pass the Infinity engine to the others just like someone said few replies above.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 3:59 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave
using the Infinity Engine, I will continue to buy them ahead of 3D games that lack those components.

This last part of HLD post should explain why the engine will not anytime soon be released to the public domain.

A company cannot afford to have a old product of theirs competing against it's newest product..

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:07 pm

Originally posted by Weasel
A company cannot afford to have a old product of theirs competing against it's newest product..

Open source code is working for Linux . . .

I think that even if they released the source code for the Infinity Engine, they'd still sell games because it's only hardcore geeks that want to make up their own mods. Most of us want to download other people's stuff. Look at the kinds of game exchanges that go on with games like Civ3 and Zeus which have mission editors.

Why couldn't Bioware develop a toolset/mission editor using the Infinity Engine and existing maps so folks could create their own mods easier than the hard way that the people who made TDD and Ascension took?

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 7:42 pm

Originally posted by HighLordDave

Open source code is working for Linux . . .

I think that even if they released the source code for the Infinity Engine, they'd still sell games because it's only hardcore geeks that want to make up their own mods. Most of us want to download other people's stuff. Look at the kinds of game exchanges that go on with games like Civ3 and Zeus which have mission editors.

Why couldn't Bioware develop a toolset/mission editor using the Infinity Engine and existing maps so folks could create their own mods easier than the hard way that the people who made TDD and Ascension took?

And here is where my understanding of Linux stops...once everyone has it, what will keep the company afloat?

Bill the hated...releases a new version, meaning (and IMHO trying to force) people will need to ungrade. And he is hated for this..(among other things) Will Linux go down the same path?

And I agree BioWare would continue to sell their games, but there will be a chance one of hardcore geeks might take the code and make something better than BioWare could...and with good things, people will come. I know I would download a good mod before I would go and pay for one or put down more cash for another Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor.

Some will say, this will force BioWare to improve their games and I will agree. But it could also force them decide to not improve, stick with a proven thing. I wasn't around during the "Gold Box" (Spoken of like a dream time) time, but I do believe this is what spelled their end. Everything must move forward (IMHO).

As to a tool set..(Something like AoW) I would have loved to have had, but to impliment this on something like BG or IWD, could it have been done? At one time I thought NWN was going to be the answer to this question...now reading thru the posts and comments, I don't know what to think.

Aqua-chan · Post by **Aqua-chan** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:03 pm

I have nothing new to contribute unfortunatly, but I will put it my opinion.

I really hate a lot of 3D games. The frame movement and speed and all of the motion during combat just throws my entire system out the window. Games like Doom, Half-Life, Oni, and Moto Racer just absolutely make me sick (In a physical sense!

)

I personally love the Infinity Engine because not too many games are made with 2D graphics, and it gives BG and Icewind a type of uniqueness I really enjoy. I don't have to worry about frame rates and getting sick during a combat sequence, so IE really works for me.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:27 am

@AC: Don´t forget the pause option in IE, one of the best features IMO.

Chanak · Post by **Chanak** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:55 pm

I think replayability is one of the key strengths of the Infinity Engine games I have played. Also, a great deal of variety is possible: look at the difference between the BG series and PS:T. I think the Infinity Engine reaches that balance Sleepy mentioned earlier: the rendered enviroments are neat, but what's more important is they serve as a backdrop for what's going on - the story!

@AC: I know exactly what you mean by feeling nauseous concerning 3D action on the screen. The same thing happens to me. Also, I feel the same way if I try to read something while in an automobile - but only when I'm a passenger. Strange.

I agree with Fable: the Aurora Engine was defintiely over-hyped, to be sure. It can't come close to the Infinity Engine, IMO, in terms of stability, replayability, and overall satisfaction factor. Years later, I can still play BG2. On the other hand, I am already tired of the NWN official campaign.