First Impressions (spoilers)

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:53 am

The smaller package is actually something that people have been asking for for years. I can't begin to count the number of huge game boxes I've seen that contained nothing more than a disk and perhaps a tiny card-sized manual. Big box definitely does not equate to large manual.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 2:58 pm

But does a manual that's designed to fit in the smaller box necessarily have to be smaller or have smaller type? I think my IWD2 manual has a standard font size of 6 pt. and it is really, really hard to read. Part of the issue is that if they up the font size from 6 to 8 pt., then the text is going to take up a third more space making the manual larger (and costing more). But they're charging me 25% more for the game so you'd think they could spring for adequate sized typesetting.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:29 pm

All the docs should be in a pdf on the game disc. you can print it out and read the instructions in any font size you choose.

I agree with HLD though, partly. If the complexity of the game mandates a manual of significant size, then give the manual the size it requires. The NWN manual sux. That 4pt. grey/black font on grey/beige pages yields headaches to read. I know about my argument in my first sentence here, but personally, I hate docs on cd to be read in acrobat. I was only making a dev's advocate point.

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 3:52 pm

Big box definitely does not equate to large manual

Fable, while that is certainly true, the opposite is true also, small boxes do equate to small manuals.

As for putting manuals in pdf files, I'm strongly against that. I don't look forward to printing out 200 page manuals for every game. I didn't like the NWN manual because it was full of stupid mistakes (I mean who's the idiot that put a sling under simple-melee weapons category) and the spells descriptions were useless.

As for the IWD2 manual it gives you everything you need to know, but I don't like the way that spells descriptions were organaized. I would have preffered the same organization as BG2 manual. Where spells were seperated by class and lvl.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:31 pm

Originally posted by Ares2382

Fable, while that is certainly true, the opposite is true also, small boxes do equate to small manuals.

I must differ with you on this. Huge boxes create the impression of substance inside, which they often don't fulfill. Small boxes are easier to store (unless you break down your boxes and store software in plastic bags), and can contain just as much as huge boxes. When a thick manual is required, it can still be supplied. The only manuals I've encountered that are too big and thick for today's smaller boxes are the Bioware/BIS ones, and a bit of reformatting would have made them fit inside a smaller box.

Many players probably don't remember, but before 1996 or so most boxes were pretty close to the smaller sized ones that provide manufacturers and resellers with more for their shelf space; a few were a lot smaller. No one complained at the time, and thick manuals were more standard. In fact, the complaints really started coming in when EA switched to those annoying monster boxes with tiny, unreadable manuals, and lots of empty space.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:58 pm

While I like the smaller boxes, I have to admit it took me a while to find that dinky box amidst all the other games.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 5:59 pm

De gustibus. It's really a matter of taste.

Cyris Drake · Post by **Cyris Drake** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:19 am

My First thoughts:

Been playing for a few hours now and...
...I've spent almost all the time killing stuff and taking their loot.

And guess what?

I'm having twice as much fun as NwN.

Call me crazy, this game is a blast. Makes me remember what was nice about BG2 and what NwN was sorely missing:

Strategy

Running my concealed rogue into a nest of baddies, whoomping their leader with a sneak attack, hightailing it out into a room where my party is set-up to pound them as they come through.

Heck yeah, I'm having a blast. Damn NwN henchmen and their ability to see through walls and disarm traps, "No, Tomi, I need you to stay medium distance away because your an individual and god-forbid you should learn any other dog commands,"

Traps.
There aren't many.
Because that sick twisted freak who trapped the entire Neverwinter region apparently got his arse kicked for putting traps on empty barrels sitting out in the middle of the bloody forest.

Mind you, so far, IWD2 hasn't reinvented the wheel. Would be nice if the characters weren't so small - hard to make out detail.

Have fun

cjdevito · Post by **cjdevito** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:26 am

I'm having twice as much fun as NwN.

This is very much the general sentiment I'm seeing expressed, again and again. To me, there's no question IWD2 is a far, far better game.

Volcane666 · Post by **Volcane666** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 6:41 am

Originally posted by fable
@Put briefly, you go through a lot of rooms that appear identical, with 3-5 exits. The kicker is, you can't make a map, because if you leave the room by the way you entered, you end up in a new room. As far as I'm concerned, that's not a puzzle. That's a desire to sell a strategy guide.

I assume you kinda mean like the third (Ithink) level of Watcher's Keep in BG2:TOB ?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 8:20 am

Originally posted by Volcane666
I assume you kinda mean like the third (Ithink) level of Watcher's Keep in BG2:TOB ?

Totally different, though I feel for you.

Watcher's Keep was a maze that you could figure out. In IWD2's Feel Wood, physical reality doesn't matter, so you actually have to backtrack through the entrance you just used to get to several locations. Many rooms are visually identical to others--and though the devs say they aren't, why do you always get 5 skeletons positioned in the same location everytime you enter the annoying place? And why do they always go for the same single character in your party?

If I haven't said it before, Fell Wood is my least favorite area in the game.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 10:15 pm

So far, I'm loving it! One comment: It seems the journal system is a step backward from the BG2 days....

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:39 am

10 Things I Think I Think About IWD2 (with apologies to Peter King):

Each character now has 24 inventory slots, 3 quick slots and eight weapon/shield slots. Plus you can now configure a weapon/shield, two-handed weapon, 2-handed ranged weapon and dual-weapons and switch between all four modes with the single press of a key. This alone makes the game twice as good as previous Infinity Engine games.
The customisable quick-menus for each character are a big improvement over the static menus for each character. Want to put extra spells on a quickbutton? Easy. How about turn undead or stealth? No problem. I love it.
Point buy still blows.
I don't understand the Bags of Holding. In BG2, you could put anything in a Bag of Holding. Not so in IWD (from TOTL) or IWD2. You can only put weapons and armour in a Bag of Holding. Gems have to go in gem bags, scrolls in scroll cases and potions in potion bags. Why can't anything (like quest items) go in a Bag of Holding?
Also, why is there no ammo belt in IWD2? (Or is there, and I just haven't found it yet?)
Paladins and monks won't accept money for doing good quests. Who says there's no role-playing in IWD games?
Taking a level of ranger is the best thing you can do for your sorcerer, wizard, rogue or bard. You get all of the fighter WPs, plus the ambidexterity and dual-weilding feats as longs as you don't wear anything heavier than light armour (which you won't anyway, lest you lose your spellcasting abilities).
The areas and backgrounds look really, really good.
There are a lot of references to the previous IWD and other Infinity Engine games that are hilarious. The adventurers complaining about how they had to go on a quest to clean out a building full or rats and fetch and carry healing potions around (from the BG tutorial) is priceless.
If you're playing in a fantasy football league, my sleeper pick of the year is Antwaan Randle-El of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He catches, rushes and throws which translates into lots of fantasy football points; if he'd played in a big name program last year, he'd have won the Heisman.

Edited for superflous unnecessary reptetive redundancy.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:34 am

by HLD
10 Things I Think I Think About IWD2 (with apologies to Peter King):

Must be getting ready for fantasy football. That's a good rip off, Peter King bugs me. He's a pompous wannabe authority on a sport he's never played.

>Execute HLD mode\\

Anyway, on topic.

Sounds good about the interface.

I support point buy, abilities are everything in 3rd edition, so this system works better. If you rolled up a character with 90 points of abilities in 3rd, he'd be a god.

Bag of Holding thing probably has something to do with the taxonomy of items in the game; as in their game labels, not the actual name of the item.

Don't know about the ammo belts.

Paladins and monks are poofdas. btw, monks are way too overpowered in 3rd.

agrees about the ranger level for other classes

haven't seen the game yet.

I, too, enjoy all the cross referencing the infinity engine games do. Sometimes, it takes going back to playing an older game to remember a reference heard in a newer game. Make sense?

Looks like Hines ward is going to start for the steelers. I think randle-el will make a contribution, but I don't think he's going to see a lot of time in the early get go. Just my opinion. My strat is to let someone take him early and pick him up when they drop him because he is not the all star they thought he would be. I think Eric Moulds is going to go nuts this year. Another possible sleeper is Javon walker of the packers. Still, the best sleepers are usually backs. First year receiver typically have a tough time in the NFL (exception: Randy Moss). Even Rice struggled when he first came into the league.

Sorry about the off topic football stuff but I am just answering a point above. Not like grunt is going to chop my feet off or anything.

Finally,

I ordered the game from Interplay's official web site back in february, even ordered the nerdy collectors edition. Now the game is out, I'm disappointed to see that my online order is still being processed. Not that I need any of you to shed a tear for me, hell, I don't why I'm telling you except for the fact I'll be better able to contribute to a first impressions impression thread once I've played the game. Despite not owning it, I seemed to ramble up something fierce here. pulling the plug...

//end HLD mode

smass · Post by **smass** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:03 pm

Having a blast playing IWD2 - can't compare to NWN - they are two very different games. The party/strategy of IWD2 and all the other infinity engine games is the best part - and the part I miss most in NWN.

Tieflings rock - my tiefling rogue/ranger is my favorite character by far - she does all the scouting and then dual wields the enemy to death.

Thinking about taking some wizard levels for a mirror image or two.

I will definitely try a solo run with a ranger rogue - after I play through with my current party - then my evil party - then my all deep gnome party - then my all drow party - you get the picture - me likes this game

free_fall · Post by **free_fall** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:40 pm

You people really RTFM?

Just kidding!

Anyway, in reply to LHD-

I specifically bought IWD2 at Costco to get it in the large box just so it would match the other IWD boxes on my shelf and, no, the manual is the same little thing that comes in the smaller packaging.

Sojourner · Post by **Sojourner** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 12:16 am

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
I ordered the game from Interplay's official web site back in february, even ordered the nerdy collectors edition. Now the game is out, I'm disappointed to see that my online order is still being processed. Not that I need any of you to shed a tear for me, hell, I don't why I'm telling you except for the fact I'll be better able to contribute to a first impressions impression thread once I've played the game. Despite not owning it, I seemed to ramble up something fierce here. pulling the plug...

This has raised serious complaints over in the Black Isle Forum. Apparently, there will a long wait for the Collector's Edition. You won't have much better luck ordering the regular edition.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 3:10 pm

I got it this morning, sojourner. very surprised to see it so soon when things appeared quite delayed. still, it makes little sense it would reach the retail market before those loyal enough to preorder their product.

HighLordDave · Post by **HighLordDave** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:42 pm

Originally posted by Ned Flanders
I got it this morning, sojourner. very surprised to see it so soon when things appeared quite delayed. still, it makes little sense it would reach the retail market before those loyal enough to preorder their product.

. . . especially since it went gold back on 5 August; you'd think they'd have shipped the pre-orders a week early to reward those who shelled out the bucks by buying it direct instead of waiting for Sam's, Costco or Best Buy to get it and sell the game for $40 retail.

By the way, Flanders, what do you get extra with the collector's edition?

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:59 pm

The collectors edition was foolishly shipped with some authentic knucklehead trout entrails and some snowballs made with snow from 'kelvin's cairn'. I think their marketing team should be fired. What a mess.