Why does no-one like Nalia?

samcu · Post by **samcu** » Mon Jan 14, 2002 9:47 pm

Gross!

Imoen romance is incestous! If the lead character is a girl, then maybe the lesbian affair

might get somewhat interesting... but never-the-less incestous.
Might as well name your character Commodus.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:13 am

now this is getting really sick,

a lesbian romance with immie?????urk!!!

anyway, thread was doomed...it has to be said,
so I will say it....

korgan: you know why dwarven women have beards? it cause of all the immaginitive things you can do with them, me girl. for example,...

Nalia: eeeeekkkkkk!!!! Bhaal, ( my gnomish pc) make him shut up!!!

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:28 am

Curdis @Aubrey, It is part of mythology that Dwarven women also have beards.

Mmm...Okay! I suppose I've to read about it. It sounded quite weird the first Korgan said it, I thought there should be something behind it, but my imagination never travelled so far. Thanks for the info!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:53 am

Originally posted by Aubrey:
<STRONG>Mmm...Okay! I suppose I've to read about it. It sounded quite weird the first Korgan said it, I thought there should be something behind it, but my imagination never travelled so far. Thanks for the info!</STRONG>

It's changed in 3rd edition - no more females with beards.

Curdis · Post by **Curdis** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:04 am

ANOTHER reason to never go to the 3rd edition rules.

Interesting that the topic starter is stuck at 1 post...

We aren't! - Curdis

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:56 am

I am well aware of the implications of an Imoen romance, as is Imoen. I have argued against such a project several times, but I've decided I'd like to take a crack at it.

I'd also point out that the game leaves the incest issue rather open to debate. One of the debates between Imoen and Viconia covers most of this nicely.

The romance certinally won't skip such implications, hence why I haven't decided how it ends yet

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 6:55 am

Time to make some things clear!

The Nalia Romance Mod ALREADY exists.
Don't remember the link, a search will be
enough, though

About Imoen: she shares a bit of your divine
essence, that's all. Surely she has another mother (Bhaal did some planning and choosed
even different races). The father is a god, I don't even think he is "father" in the "traditional way"! (Do you remember those STRANGE Bhaal Spawn you encounter near the Fire Giants Temple??!!! I HOPE he used some "alternative", godly methods!!!

I hardly would consider her as a "sister".
No more than Melissan, Sendai, and HALF of the city of Saradush!!!!!!!!!

@Quitch: I'm waiting with faith!!!!!
But the ending for Imoen HAS to be good!!!
Maybe you could do different endings?
Give us some chances, at least!!!!

I'll found a fun club for you!

But I have to admit that even Bodhi as NPC is an interesting thing, though.

Aegnor · Post by **Aegnor** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 7:31 am

Nalia's OK, she's the best option for getting a high level mage early in the game if you don't like Evil Edwin.

But as far as the Imoen romance, Quitch, I think its an excellent idea. The "incestuousness" of it all offers a perfect element of tragedy to a story that already draws on many elements of classical mythology. I'm thinking of Arthur and Morgan le Fey, for instance. And don't forget their (Imoen and the PC's) common blood is linked to their divinity. Zeus and Hera, IIRC, were siblings too. Somehow the gods are allowed to break taboos without vilification.

Just curious, Quitch, if you've considered rewriting the Irenicus dialogues to delay the revelation that Imoen is "half-sister" to the PC. This may be very difficult, I don't know, but it would allow the romance to develop in ignorance of its incestuous nature, only to be revealed later when...

Sorry, I'll let you write the script. Good luck.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:29 am

I'm surprised no-one ever asked for, or made, a Mazzy romance.
Or Yoshimo. Now THAT would be a greek tragedy, considering how it will end.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:38 am

@ Invincible121,

You cannot go wrong with any NPC's. That is the beauty of this game and the reason so many of us have played over and over and over and over and over and over. Plus there are mods and patches. Basically, it's probably top 3 of all games ever made. I've been through it 8 or 9 times and I still don't think I've seen all of the NPC reaction towards one another. But that is for another thread.

Anyway, I notice you're still at one post. Are you reading any of this. Please continue to comment. People will start to call you a lurker.

I've personally only kept Nalia around for her individual quest with the keep. However, looking to play SoA with TDD and using the all estrogen party. What a headache.

Invincible121 · Post by **Invincible121** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 9:53 am

Hey all.
i am not being a lurker, i was just waiting to see what everyone was going to say.

I liked doing Nalia's quest, but i have question : is there anyway for to gt back into the De'arnise hold after you have left it?
I am asking because i was on relativey low levels when i did it and did'nt want to face all of the golems.
I left all those weapons in there and thought to myself, i will come back later when i am more powerful.
But i could find no way back in!<slaps self
i can'nt getback there now but it woulde useful for future reference.
I think that an Imoen romance would be a good idea.
But if the main character is male then does'nt Aerie and Jaheria have an affair with him?
This could be a chance for *****slaps all round (£5 quid on Jaheria wining)

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:04 am

Once you complete the d'arnise keep, if you are not a fighter you will not be able to get back in. I'd advise using the patch where you can do all of the quests. It's kinda of cheesy and not role playing but it is worth it. anyone here got a link to the patch.

I did not mean to call you a lurker.

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:30 pm

Even if you use the multi-stronghold patch and be able to go back, after completing the De'Arnise hold, you won't be able to put a finger in those weapons you have left behind. They will have just disappear. You should either take the weapons and fight the golems --or running away like hell if you prefer-- or leave the weapons there and go. But, then, why you should do such a thing?

Cheers

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 2:36 pm

Littiz: About Imoen: she shares a bit of your divine essence, that's all. Surely she has another mother (Bhaal did some planning and choosed even different races). The father is a god, I don't even think he is "father" in the "traditional way"! (Do you remember those STRANGE Bhaal Spawn you encounter near the Fire Giants Temple??!!! I HOPE he used some "alternative", godly methods!!!
I hardly would consider her as a "sister".
No more than Melissan, Sendai, and HALF of the city of Saradush!!!!!!!!!

LOL! I second!

Thanks, Littiz.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 3:28 pm

Ah yes, but the real hurdle is that Imoen has said she would not be interested in such a relationship, so expect a rocky ride.

Oh, and and my evil side demands that some variables are working in the background from the word go, so that players would have to reload a loooooooong way back to change the ending.

Muwhahahahaaaaa....

As for rewriting the story. Since you won't pick up Imoen proper until Chapter 4, and then you don't meet Irenicus again until Chapter 7, it would make it rather tricky.

Then again, I could think of the perfect time to introduce the bombshell, but I think I'll refrain from changing the story, as that makes it effectively stand alone. I'd like to have it work with some other MODs.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Tue Jan 15, 2002 5:58 pm

ever had a thread you just cant resist saying something about???even though its really bad and could get you kicked out of the board....ok, wont say it about boo and what was the medival version of duct tape....

SORRY FABLE, I couldn't help it!!!!

giggle...

so does the immie mod cause your party members to gaasp and make bad comments? I mean the attraction of the aerie romance is all the fun things your party says when she is preggers.

edwin: so you're dating your sister? hmmm... you've aleady shown you are at best a moron, I sudder to think about the implications of adding congenital defects to your already murky parentage...

Jaheira: well, what care I about society? this is love and I will support you against anybody who dares make an issue of it. (whap) stop laughing, viconia, or I will leave marks...

aerie: I know we had somehting, but I also understand about a childhood love that finally happens...

Minsc: so Bhaal, you an immie will wed! boo is so happy for you, and is dancing in joy. we will attend, pls say there will be much cake and cheese for boo...oops, boo I forgot once again you are a hamster and not a rat....you have much too proud and graceful lines for a mouse, sorry boo....(kiss, kiss)

korgan: so you finally got that chickie pregnant, eh? oh she's not???? are ye daft man, why are you marrying her if shes not pregnant? best reason for adventuring, a baby in the crib I say.

nalia: so you intend to turn a portion of my keep into a nursery? how wonderful, I can be a god auntie!!! will he or she become a warrior or mage, youre so good, bhaal at both, though it sometimes freaks out the servents when you've got skellies wandering around the halls...I know we keep saying we'll fix the height of the bell pulls, since you are a gnome the standard ones in the keep are too high for you to reach, but the cook nearly had a stroke when the pit fiend walked into the kitchen last night to fix you a ham sandwich..

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 1:30 am

giggle, bump! some of my best work...

Bobsy · Post by **Bobsy** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 3:52 pm

Originally posted by Littiz:
<STRONG>About Imoen: she shares a bit of your divine
essence, that's all. Surely she has another mother (Bhaal did some planning and choosed
even different races). The father is a god, I don't even think he is "father" in the "traditional way"! (Do you remember those STRANGE Bhaal Spawn you encounter near the Fire Giants Temple??!!! I HOPE he used some "alternative", godly methods!!!
I hardly would consider her as a "sister".
No more than Melissan, Sendai, and HALF of the city of Saradush!!!!!!!!!</STRONG>

<puts on spectacles>
Right. Firstly, yes, as with all Bhaalspawn, Imoen is a legitimate half-sister. I may sound just a wee bit arrogant sprouting this, but let's look at the evidence. Yes, evidence, that's a good word.

Firstly, the essence of a Bhaalspawn is seemingly contained in two areas: the soul and the blood. We know this because when Irenicus takes your soul away, you're left with a measure of your Bhaalspawn-ness, which is repeatedly claimed to reside in your blood. Therefore, it follows that this blood is shared in all the Bhaalspawn. Yes, half the population of Saradush. Sorry.

The importance of this is that Imoen is a blood relation, and therefore by modern-day standards (which are taken into AD&D settings way too often) any romantic relationship would be incestuous. Not a good thing.

From the point of view of reproduction, it is important to remember that the Bhaalspawn were all concieved during the time of troubles, when the gods were made flesh. It is important to note that this does not necessarily mean made /human/, and indeed the gods retained many of their powers. For Bhaal, one of the many forms He took was that of the Slayer. This is besides the point though. The point is that although the gods were still exceptionally powerful, they were no longer omnipotent and omnipresent. While in a humanoid (or similar) form, it is more than likely that the Bhaalspawn were concieved sexually (the "traditional" way). This makes Imoen genetically (although I doubt Bhaal's blood was made up only of genes) your half-sister.

Coming back to Imoen, unless you were playing a more "evil" character, most see in the openings of BG1 and most of ToB that there is a strong relationship between the PC and Imoen. Indeed, it is more than a little bit evident that Gorion raised the pair together, which nearly always develops a brother-sister relationship. I think the best parallel I can think of is that between Sam and Frodo in Lord of the Rings; there is a deep and loving bond between the two, yet it is not a romantic love.

So, what I'm trying to say is that while any kind of romantic relationship would be what we would consider incestuous and taboo, it doesn't stop there from being genuine loving feelings and as strong a bond between her and the PC.

<removes spectacles>

So there. I'd be interested in an Imoen romance, if only from an academic point of view.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:06 pm

there is a deep and loving bond between the two, yet it is not a romantic love.

Certinally not from Imoen, however from what I've read, there is on the side of the player.

Sick puppies, all of them

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Wed Jan 16, 2002 5:59 pm

The fact that Mr. Bobsy with the much-serious spectacles made us feel like being puppies doesn't necessarily means that we are.

Now, I wish to make myself crystal clear: I don't like Imoen, and apart from BG1 never have I taken her with me through SoA and ToB. My preference's going to the helping-others-and-doing-good-things Nalia. So there!

If I judge by the end of ToB...

SPOILERS
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...where Imoen's essence is full exploited by Melissan and, either she is with you or left behind it doesn't matter, for she will turn into Slayer and seek to ripe your flesh off, then I have one more reason to suppose she's immature, too light-hearted and I-care-not for my taste and for the main storyline of the game. I really don't know what Gorion had in mind when he was raising the two of us together.

@Bobsy, who wrote:
------
I think the best parallel I can think of is that between Sam and Frodo in Lord of the Rings; there is a deep and loving bond between the two, yet it is not a romantic love.
------
Okay, if Imoen was like Master Samwise I would give a lot of seconds thoughts, but no. Samwise is the only and lonely best elvish-kind hobbit, and I wonder why he was not given the Ring instead of Frodo. No really! I love them both.

Of course, from an academic point of view, I would lie Samwise tell me what e-x-a-c-t-l-y was thinking when he stared at the sleepy Frodo and said to himself:"I love him."

Cheers