let's get this xp mess cleaned up (questions)

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:55 pm

ok after quite some time of playing the older editions of d&d i'm at a bit of a loss when dealing with this new xp system of nwn.

so far i've noticed that the xp values differ greatly for a wizard depending on summoned creatures, but it's counter intuitive. i've seen a number of posts that have it completely backwards, here and on other boards.

xp is based on average level, that is if you summon the badger and you are high level - you get a lot more xp. even your henchmen will increase your xp totals (since they are always a lower level than you, except maybe in very begining)

case in point, last night my mage (lv 13-14) and grimgaw (12-13) were killing skeleton warrors at about 90 xp each. summon a badger - 206 each. same skeleton warriors.

i've also noticed that when i cleared the final level of the caves w/ a hound archon and w/ just henchmen and with the badger, the three xp totals were vastly different about 2000 xp between the high and low scores, w/ archon the least xp was gained, middle value grimgam & i, high score badger & grimgaw & pc. (at the time the archon was a level higher than my pc)

i don't use the familliar much but seeing as how it's the same level as my wizard (or higher in some cases - hell hound) i would expect it to lower the xp values.

in fact the henchmen augment your xp rather than detract from it, contrary to the bg2 style of going solo = more xp. for those who have tried the alone approach what has been your experience w/ experience ? in a few cases the henchmen get themselves killed and i complete the area solo, i notice the xp values for kills are reported as half of what i was earning.

due to the chaotic nature of combat i've not been able to direct combat and keep a close eye on the char screen where the xp totals are listed, it's more of a before and after. but consistently a low level summon adds thousands of xp per dungeon / map.
--

now my main question is this - is it supposed to be like this? i've heard that some of the patches alter the xp calcs, but so far none of the problems i've had seem like they would be fixed w/ the patches so i don't use them.

Rav · Post by **Rav** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:36 am

I solo'd a Fighter2/paladinx, did all the quests, ended the campaign at level 16 (barely - not that it was hard or anything).

My mage is going up a LOT faster.

Rav

Hippy Lettuce · Post by **Hippy Lettuce** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 8:54 am

Your mage is going up faster due to the fact that summonded creatures add to your mages XP total...

With henchmen, you are sharing the XP between each other. So, the mage has an advantage in XP due to summoned creatures and familiars granting the mage more XP from their creature killings...

Ares2382 · Post by **Ares2382** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 12:53 pm

the XP question has been addressed on this forum quiet a bit, and basically the average lvl theory seems to be the most accurate one, but in my own experience I have seen things that contredict that theory, if you want to know more then do a search on this board and you'll find my examples.

Yuusuke · Post by **Yuusuke** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:07 am

I haven't the foggiest as to what the hell NWN does when it compiles the exp. I played a warrior my very first time through the game, and he was level 19 by the time I got into chapter 4 (with henchman, ALL the time). I just finished the game with a different warror, he was level 15 when he started Chapter 4 (solo). I know it's possible that I might've missed a coupld of chances for exp here and there that I hit before, but we're talking almost a 50,000-point difference here. I KNOW I didn't missed THAT much stuff.

I wouldn't be as confused if it weren't for the fact that I KNOW I got more exp per kill solo than I did with a henchman. Maybe the game throws more enemies at you if you have a henchman, I know it's far-fetched but I'm all out of ideas.

P.S. Another possiblity I just thought of is maybe the patches changed the number of enemies you encounter or something that changes the total exp in the SP game. Cause I've gone through numerous patches since my very first warrior and this current one. Maybe Bioware wanted to bolster online play by giving people a bit more motivation to continue playing after the SP game.

koz-ivan · Post by **koz-ivan** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:31 am

that's got the ring of truth to it, is it possible that you were gaining more xp early, and less xp from level 15+ as a solo char?
could it be possible that the monsters are scaled up a bit? i've noticed that "wandering monsters" get tougher as the main char's level improves. ie hitting the beggers distric early i fought mostly weak zombies, but in games where i go there late it's mostly warrior zombies.

is it possible the game scales each encounter by total party levels, but xp by average level?

i'm thinking that with the henchmen capped at level 14, their lower level acts to drag down the average party level.

all i know is that the xp system is way screwy, my mage just started chapter 3 as a 19th lv char. (now i believe i've done just about everything possible w/ this char, still seems a bit high, by the time i get the first word i'll be maxed out in levels.

my previous monk, barely hit lv 20, i was almost done w/ chapter 4... and yet did almost all of the quests except for luskan where i sleptwalked through, and missed a lot...

(edit to add is it possible to use the word possible with more frequency then i did?)

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 11:43 am

Yes, it is possible to use the word possible more frequently

limorkil · Post by **limorkil** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 12:30 pm

Here are the 'facts' that I know of, based on my own experimenting with characters in the single-player campaign:

1. XP earned is based on the average character level of the party, including henchmen, summoned creatures, pets and familiars. This is compared to the challenge rating of the opponents and the bigger the difference the more XP you get. You will almost always get more XP with a henchman, except at the start of the game when the henchman is higher level than you. Summoned creatures, pets and familiars often boost the XP you get because they are often much lower level than you.

2. Each class gets a different amount of base XP, before modifications for challenge rating. It seems to be based on hit die, because wizards/sorcerers get the most, followed by rogues/bards, clerics/druids/monks and fighters/rangers/paladins. Barbarians may get the least, but I have never tried one to confirm this. This makes a big difference to how fast you level.

Unfortunately, I don't really know how the numbers work and I have yet to read of anyone who has cracked the formula. If I were to guess I would say that your class affects your effective character level which in turn affects the average character level of your party. *shrug* - It's just a guess.

sandman76 · Post by **sandman76** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:32 pm

theoretically.....

So would it be possible then to leave your henchman a number of levels below you, to therefore raise your xp totals?

limorkil · Post by **limorkil** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 9:15 am

Yes, absolutely. People that can summon sometimes use a low level familiar/pet/summon to the same effect.

I was totally pissed off with how easy the single-player game was, so I tried to make it more difficult by doing everything possible to slow down my XP gain:
1. Multiclassed so that I got an XP penalty
2. No henchmen, pets etc.
3. Skipped the prologue/introduction (The Academy) so that I started chapter 1 at level 1.
4. Picked ranger as the class I will keep the highest level. Being a d10 hit-die class means I get less XP per kill than lower hit-die classes (e.g. I get around half the XP that a rogue would get for the same kill).

Works pretty well. I am still in chapter 2 and a lot of the fights are actually quite exciting. Only problem is I can't use most of the items I find or buy because I am not high enough level (I just reached level 8, halfway through chapter 2).

El_Gallo · Post by **El_Gallo** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:23 pm

I just finished the game as a level 17 monk. I'm using the latest patch. I've done every quest I've encountered in the game and killed every enemy I have faced. There is no way in hell that I could have reached lvl 20 before the end. I actually reached level 17 only after killing morag. I agree with Yuusuke maybe it has something to do with the patch, can't think of anything alse.

Robust Package · Post by **Robust Package** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:21 am

there was more EXP points before the 1.22/23 patch, i made a lvl 18 fighter (solo) in 1.21 doing nearly all of the quests and then made another fighter (solo) in 1.23 did nearly all the same quests and came out with a lvl 16 fighter. Bioware tryed to make the game harder (LOLOL) by decreasing the exp.

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 6:10 am

I got 20 for my druid before ever going into the Tower in Ch.2 without any cheating (some shall call the following suvh, but i only made use of rules, just to make the point). Well, i did all what might be done so far. However i used the party effective rating thing mentioned by someone erlier here on board. After getting the level 3 i almost never used companion because their levels are the same or greater than yours. The second was low level summon - usually 1st level. The last thing used to bring the gain in XP about 2x more with badger than without it. I summoned one and told it to keep the ground at the area entrance or other place out of sight

... I used henchmen all the time nevertheless - mostly Tom and Linu (and they didn't die often, i cared about them).

free_fall · Post by **free_fall** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 4:37 pm

I played as a Ranger, only summoned a companion a few times, had Tomi with me throughout and kept him leveled up, and ended up lvl 20.