Diviner?

Obike Fixx · Post by **Obike Fixx** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 3:00 pm

Why would anyone ever chose to be a diviner? They are simply WEAK! There is nothing good about being a diviner. Okay, it MIGHT make a little sense, if you chose to be a diviner when you have completet the game 100 times with every mod, and without ever having any problem at all. Anyone out there ever tried to be a diviner, and complete the game(or at least survived Irenicus Dungeon!)?

Firinflablaze · Post by **Firinflablaze** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:00 pm

What's so horrible about a diviner? Sure they don't get conjuration spells, so you can't summon a million monsters, however with a backup mage that's no problem (not to mention all the summoning items), it makes you experiment with using new spell strategies beyond "summon a million pets and watch them fight for you" strategy. It's also fun to try an enchanter, where you must discover how to use spells beyond the normal "nuke'em till they glow" spells. Skull trap and confusion suddenly become much more interesting.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Thu Sep 12, 2002 10:48 pm

Originally posted by Mikael Skiffard
Why would anyone ever chose to be a diviner? They are simply WEAK! There is nothing good about being a diviner. Okay, it MIGHT make a little sense, if you chose to be a diviner when you have completet the game 100 times with every mod, and without ever having any problem at all. Anyone out there ever tried to be a diviner, and complete the game(or at least survived Irenicus Dungeon!)?

The kits were done differently in bg2 than to d&d which kind nerfed allot of them...

A diviner has allot of usefull spells fore p&p play.. like detect evil, letting you know what around corners and know alighnment saving you from possible betrayl + a myriad of invisibility removing spells and detection spells...

He basicly keeps you in the know.. which is very valuable in a game where, if you foolishly walk around a corner and get pasted by fifty phyco vampires.. bad luck your chars gone, forever...

In bg2 however, where if you do something stoopid and get ambushed or whooped you can just reload..

Obike Fixx · Post by **Obike Fixx** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:13 am

Guess you're right, I am just not used to cast those spells. But wouldn't you agree, that it would be better to chose a normal Mage instead of chosing Diviner?

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 7:04 am

Originally posted by Mikael Skiffard
Guess you're right, I am just not used to cast those spells. But wouldn't you agree, that it would be better to chose a normal Mage instead of chosing Diviner?

Yes and no..

If I could only have 1 mage, I would rather a normal mage to a Diviner

but If I had another mage capable of summoning.. why not go for the extra spells? Its not like you 'HAVE' to fill them with divination spells...

And he can still use all the nasty necromantic and invocations so who cares?

But like I said.. Its all in the way the game is done, that makes them useless

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 9:05 am

Mvoing to SoA. @Mikael, next time you want a thread moved, please drop me a PM. I've removed the mess up in SoA. Thanks.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 3:59 pm

Originally posted by Mikael Skiffard
Guess you're right, I am just not used to cast those spells. But wouldn't you agree, that it would be better to chose a normal Mage instead of chosing Diviner?

I rarely use summoning mage spells. First, there are better spells and, second, your cleric/druid can take care of the summoning anyway. That makes the Diviner one of the best kits IMO. However, one huge disadvantage is the fact you cannot obtain a Familiar. And about the logic in that, see:

Find familiar shouldn't be a Conjuring/Summoning spell

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:02 pm

IIRC the fireball spell is conjuration. Thats a spell i use quite a lot. actually. I would not like to "not have it"

Obike Fixx · Post by **Obike Fixx** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:06 pm

Allright allright, I give up. You win, the Diviner is THE PERFECT CLASS(although I would NEVER chose it!).

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:14 pm

Originally posted by Bloodmist
IIRC the fireball spell is conjuration. Thats a spell i use quite a lot. actually. I would not like to "not have it"

Fireball is an Evocation spell (favoured by Invokers, opposite school Enchantment).

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:17 pm

Originally posted by Astafas
Fireball is an Evocation spell (favoured by Invokers, opposite school Enchantment).

Hmmmm.... m'kay

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Sep 13, 2002 4:22 pm

Originally posted by Mikael Skiffard
Allright allright, I give up. You win, the Diviner is THE PERFECT CLASS(although I would NEVER chose it!).

Well, it's a matter of taste. I prefer Invokers myself. But I still think a careful and patient Diviner, who magically gathers information in order to suggest advanced strategies to his companions before battle, is a cool character.

Obike Fixx · Post by **Obike Fixx** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 4:27 pm

Originally posted by Astafas
Well, it's a matter of taste. I prefer Invokers myself. But I still think a careful and patient Diviner, who magically gathers information in order to suggest advanced strategies to his companions before battle, is a cool character.

Hej...... Youre from Sweden!(country above Denmark, wich I come from)

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 4:29 pm

Diviners suck. The diametric opposite to the Conjurer, which is the best specialist. Notice how the best and the worst are from two opposing schools? Diviners can't do crap.

Obike Fixx · Post by **Obike Fixx** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 4:48 pm

Originally posted by Impaler987
Diviners suck. The diametric opposite to the Conjurer, which is the best specialist. Notice how the best and the worst are from two opposing schools? Diviners can't do crap.

That's what I have been saying all the time! Finally someone who understans me.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:26 pm

Originally posted by Impaler987
Diviners suck. The diametric opposite to the Conjurer, which is the best specialist. Notice how the best and the worst are from two opposing schools? Diviners can't do crap.

Not for the first time, I notice Impaler presenting an opinion which isn't really an argument. You would do well, Michael Skiffard, to pay more attention to the advices you take at heart.

Firinflablaze · Post by **Firinflablaze** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:09 pm

Another viewpoint of looking at this is how you can avoid restrictions using items/wands. There are no ways (short of carting an Inquisitor along) of casting detection spells, while on the other hand the game abounds with stuff like the wand of monster summoning, staffs of elemental mastery and other such items which allow you to summon your pets without bothering with the spell slots.
Thus: A diviner can cast many useful conjuration spells using items, while a conjurer can cast no divination spells. A diviner is a more well-rounded mage.

Though I must admit, the lack of a familiar is disheartening (no wand for that)

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:51 pm

Originally posted by Firinflablaze
Another viewpoint of looking at this is how you can avoid restrictions using items/wands. There are no ways (short of carting an Inquisitor along) of casting detection spells, while on the other hand the game abounds with stuff like the wand of monster summoning, staffs of elemental mastery and other such items which allow you to summon your pets without bothering with the spell slots.
Thus: A diviner can cast many useful conjuration spells using items, while a conjurer can cast no divination spells. A diviner is a more well-rounded mage.

Though I must admit, the lack of a familiar is disheartening (no wand for that)

Actually... Theives can detect illusions, preists can cast true sight as can druids..

Preists of helm get a innate true sight...

So invisibility detection isnt *that* big a deal

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:54 pm

Originally posted by Firinflablaze
Another viewpoint of looking at this is how you can avoid restrictions using items/wands. There are no ways (short of carting an Inquisitor along) of casting detection spells, while on the other hand the game abounds with stuff like the wand of monster summoning, staffs of elemental mastery and other such items which allow you to summon your pets without bothering with the spell slots.
Thus: A diviner can cast many useful conjuration spells using items, while a conjurer can cast no divination spells. A diviner is a more well-rounded mage.

Though I must admit, the lack of a familiar is disheartening (no wand for that)

There is no need for a diviner, ever. Need something identified? Take a bard, blades are especially good overall (even at half the straight bard's lore). Need true sight? An inquisitor, or a cleric. That's right, clerics have that spell, too (5th level I believe, or maybe 6th, don't remember offhand), in fact, Priests of Helm get it not only as an actual spell but as a special ability. Or even better, a thief with high detect illusions ability. So the only two divination spells worth anything in the game, identify and true sight, are covered more than well enough by other classes.

Conjuration mage spells replacable? Ahem, Mordenkeinen's Sword? Don't see a wand for that. And nothing will talk me out of carrying a familiar for my mage.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:27 am

Originally posted by Impaler987
There is no need for a diviner, ever. Need something identified? Take a bard, blades are especially good overall (even at half the straight bard's lore). Need true sight? An inquisitor, or a cleric. That's right, clerics have that spell, too (5th level I believe, or maybe 6th, don't remember offhand), in fact, Priests of Helm get it not only as an actual spell but as a special ability. Or even better, a thief with high detect illusions ability. So the only two divination spells worth anything in the game, identify and true sight, are covered more than well enough by other classes.

Conjuration mage spells replacable? Ahem, Mordenkeinen's Sword? Don't see a wand for that. And nothing will talk me out of carrying a familiar for my mage.

But if you have a diviner in your party, you don't need your clerics/druids/bards to waste spellslots on identifying, true sight etc.
Besides, NOT being able to conjure makes for a challenging game. That's what makes this game so replayable: choose a different class, play another alignment, take a different party and you have yourself a whole new different game.