Diviner?

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:35 am

now its interesting that someone mentioned priestly spell true sight and farsight...

current game, aerie got hacked as cleric conjuror, and i do indeed have true sight, and can cast it as priest...and i still have all those lovely extra spells per level...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 1:42 am

besides, the only summons worth a damn when you install sola, and otehr fine wes products....is summon planetar

major beasties all have scripted deathspell, and planetars are immune to deathspell....

now i do think if bioware had perked up the kits for mages, it would have been much more difficult choice than sorc or some other class....

i mean everyone who thinks about playing pure mage usually picks sorcs....

so lets say conjuror gets a summon planetar, once per ten levels as an innate, or diviner gets true sight, once per 4 levels as innate, as part of kit perk....

hey wes!!!!

necromancer gets immune to level drain, and hold undead, once per 4 levels...

illusionist gets special innate simmy, immune to true sight, once per 10 levels, but not immune to death spell...

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 2:19 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly

major beasties all have scripted deathspell, and planetars are immune to deathspell....

All gated creatures are immune to death spell..

Planatars, Devas, All classes of deamon and Elemental princes and I beleive ementals summoned by greater elemental summoning are as well.. though not sure on that one

Alson · Post by **Alson** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 6:39 pm

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
so lets say conjuror gets a summon planetar, once per ten levels as an innate, or diviner gets true sight, once per 4 levels as innate, as part of kit perk....

Hmmmm... Summon Planetar right after Irenicus Dungeon...
Yes, i think i'll play a Conjurer!

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:02 pm

It's all about role-playing, gentleman....do what you want. If you think in story terms any class is good to play with.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:53 pm

LOL! If you want to flame people, at least get it right.

Originally posted by Impaler987
There is no need for a diviner, ever. Need something identified? Take a bard

Who cares about the "specialty school"? It's what opposition schools you have that matters.

Originally posted by Impaler987
Conjuration mage spells replacable? Ahem, Mordenkeinen's Sword?

I don't know what game you're playing, but in mine it's Invocation...

Only the familiar and Power Word Blind are worth anything.

Firinflablaze · Post by **Firinflablaze** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 6:05 pm

Originally posted by Impaler987
There is no need for a diviner, ever. Need something identified? Take a bard, blades are especially good overall (even at half the straight bard's lore). Need true sight? An inquisitor, or a cleric. That's right, clerics have that spell, too (5th level I believe, or maybe 6th, don't remember offhand), in fact, Priests of Helm get it not only as an actual spell but as a special ability. Or even better, a thief with high detect illusions ability. So the only two divination spells worth anything in the game, identify and true sight, are covered more than well enough by other classes.

Conjuration mage spells replacable? Ahem, Mordenkeinen's Sword? Don't see a wand for that. And nothing will talk me out of carrying a familiar for my mage.

First of all, the identification and true sight argument was for a solo mage, as these abilities are easy to get in other classes. On replacable conjuration spells, Mordie's sword, every time I've used it, has been (unfortunently) death spelled, as every spellcasting monster seems to be scripted to cast that at it. I'm not sure about the planetar argument, (not having TOB) but mostly my use for pets is for cannon fodder. The 20 fire elementals you get from the staff, as well as the elementals from the other staffs, the charm spells to simply grab them from the enemy, and the all too numerous wands of monster summoning, can fill my need for cannon fodder quite nicely as a soloist. As a support mage of course, Illusionist all the way!

EtherImp · Post by **EtherImp** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:22 am

Pft.. Necromancer is by far the best specialized school (In actual AD&D), right ahead of Invoker. What good is a mage if he can't fry the crap out of baddies with twisted spells?

Fighters = Beat the crap outta.. well.. everything. Even chest and doors according to AD&D.. But try that in BG2..

Thieves = Keep the fighters from walking over traps, use bows (Arrows don't tickle, last I heard), and can backstab, which makes up for their weak weapons by multiplying the damage.

Clerics = Carry a big heavy club/mace/flail/etc and can use holy magic to fry baddies (as well as heal/protect himself and the group)

Mages = The opposite of fighters. They couldn't possibly go head to head with a fighter if it were on the "physical", where a Thief and a Cleric MAY have a better chance at that.. But a mage can fart fireballs, split lightning, and point a finger at the fighter and watch him turn to dust.. Not to mention transforming him into a squirrel or a toad.

My question is.. If you have that much magical power why in the hell would you ever revert to summoning a bear, or looking in a crystal ball to complete your quest when it's alot more satisfying to see a group of monsters run around in circles screaming frantically as they burn to death?

Call me a "death match" player, but throwing balls of death and destruction into monster liars never ceases to amuse me.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:25 pm

Your point being?

EtherImp · Post by **EtherImp** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:29 pm

Point being, I would not be satisfied by being a "diviner".

Not enough chunks and burning flesh for me.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 1:48 pm

Why not? They're equally good at Fireballing the cr@p out of stuff as Invokers. Remember, BG2 magic schools are handled different from PnP.

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Sat Oct 19, 2002 6:44 am

The restrictions on Diviners don't bother me all that much. But there is one Mage specialty class that I would never play: the Transmuter, of the school of Alteration. The opposition school is Abjuration, which contains nearly all of the spells that let you protect yourself from magic or remove your enemy's protective spells. In a game like BG2 where you have to fight a lot of enemy Mages, I can live without Conjuration/Summoning spells, but I can't imagine playing without the use of Abjuration spells.

The school of Alteration definitely has a lot of worthwhile spells (including Haste, Stoneskin, Polymorph, Disintegrate, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Shapechange, Spellstrike, Time Stop). But how many times a day can you cast Ruby Ray of Reversal and Spellstrike? You can't cast them until you're 14th Level and 18th Level, respectively. Remember, any Mage except an Abjurationist can cast spells from the school of Alteration. (I don't think I'd want to play an Abjurationist, either.) So the question is, is there any advantage in being a Transmuter? Does it outweigh the drawbacks? Is the Transmuter specialty class something that people really want to play?

I'm just curious--has anyone ever played a Transmuter? Are enough people interested in playing one to justify its place in the game? (Why make a class no one would ever play?)

ctid1977 · Post by **ctid1977** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 8:15 am

Yes

I tend to play with a Transmuter if I use a mage.

Have soloed it with one too and it is very dificult, and means having to come up with novel mage vs mage strategies.

Due to it's opposition school, it makes a good mage for attack only, leading you to concentrate on attacking and developing and using certain spells.

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

dios · Post by **dios** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 3:20 pm

actually...i haven't understood the idea with using a regular mag or a wizard...welll, not since i found the sorcerer...*mm*

i mean...my sorcerer, kelsey and tashia just kills everything that comes in my way...i mean... 18 magicmissile really hurts...or maybe 21 or so...

i to play an mage i choose illusionist...why? gnome why? 19 in intelligence...yumma...just to learn every possible spell...and then erase them and relearn them...mm..

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:23 pm

I guess I'm alone in the fact that I never summon anything when I play, aside from the elementals from the various staves. Conjuration really has nothing for me aside from Mage Armor, but Shield works just as well, if not better, and the only drawback is the shorter duration. Oh, I also use Cloudkill from the wand, and I think that might be Conjuration, but regardless, it's from the wand anyway. The only memorized spells I use regularly are True Sight, Breach, Spell Thrust, and Skull Trap. Everything else is just kind of there, and used when my non-magical fighting is taking too long.

And in terms of Transmuters... In Baldur's Gate and similar games, I can't really say how useful they are, having never played one, but I DID play one in 3rd Edition PnP, and she was a hoot, let me tell you. There's nothing more amusing than being attacked by a big guy with a two handed sword, only to cast Enlarge on it and watch it get too big for him to hold. Or Enlarging someone's helmet/bowstring/boots... The possibilities are endless.

Daragen · Post by **Daragen** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:52 am

When playing single player with an evil party (i.e all the time) I usually have the PC as a fighter of some sort, and take jan and edwin. Jan is the thief, and also acts as a backup mage; he has his entire book filled with spells like hast and identify that I dont wanna waste one of eddies spell slots on. Edwin is, of course, THE mage!

Of course, being me, I like to kill them all! DIE VILE MAGIC USERS!!!