Making a Real Holy Avenger (Item Creation)..

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:43 pm

Ok, after being more than a little disappointed with the selection of holy swords in the game, I decided to attempt and make on using the infinity engine.

And found that I'm more than a little confused and out of my league.

So I decided to post up what I was trying to make and see if anyone else can make it a reality.

*************************************
Holy Avenger: Vigilant Watcher +5
Bastard Sword, 2-Handed, requires 14 str to wield.
Grants wielder immunity to blindness
Grants wielder Protection from Normal Missiles.
Allows you to cast true sight once a day.
Thac0: +5, +10 for Chaotic Aligned
Dam: 2D4 +5, +10 to Chaotic Aligned
Weight: 10
Speed: 4
Usable by: Paladins
Description: The Holy Sword of Helm. The Vigilant Watcher has seen many battles in the service of the God of Protectors. It was thought to have been lost during a Great Battle in the Underdark.
(Pic of +1 Bastard Sword next to descript, looks like a +1 Bastard sword for icon)
*************************************

So why, was I trying to create such a weapon when pally's get Carsomyr? Because I felt Carsomyr was more for Keldorn and besides, I like bastard swords and in a game with only 5 bastard swords, there was need for another until Throne of Bhaal Comes out.

Tell me what you think.

Orland

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 3:45 pm

Sorry, post button got stuck...

Orland

White Rabbit · Post by **White Rabbit** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 6:34 pm

Sniff....Sniff....What's that smell??? Oh thats it, it must be CHEEZE!!!!! Arn't bastard swords one handed by the way?

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Sun Jun 17, 2001 7:51 pm

Bastard Swords are 1 or 2 handed. I chose 2 handed because the lack of a shield make the weapon more plausable than it being 1 handed.

No cheese, just trying to be fair while also corresponding to the God's preferences (Helm's favored weapon is a Bastard Sword).

I mean after all Carsomyr does 1D12+5, +10 to Chaotic Evil, has 50% magic resistance, and allows one to cast dispel magic 3x a day.

I think I was down right humble compared.

Orland

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 7:33 am

Cheese?

Red Inquisition · Post by **Red Inquisition** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 7:55 am

I thought Paladins could only be of Lawful alignment. But I could be wrong.

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 9:01 am

Paladins can only be from Lawful Good aligment.
And that weapon is not a real Holy Avenger (the holy avenger in the game is as close that the engine lets) but a super weapon.
I would class that weapon as a artifact.

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Mon Jun 18, 2001 9:13 pm

Ok, let's start out by fixing one mistake I made: It shouldn't be +10 for Chaotic Aligned, but +10 against Chaotic Aligned.

Next off, I do own the D&D 3rd Edition Books and I have read them a couple of times and nowhere does it give an example of a Holy Avenger. It refers to a paladin getting one crafted or being blessed by his/her god with said weapon (ex: finding the weapon after a long and perilous adventure).

While I have no doubt that Carsomyr is a Holy Avenger, I highly doubt it is the standard by which to set all holy avengers. What do I mean?

No respectable paladin, unless they by some estranged chance follow Torm (A Lesser God), would use a 2 handed sword as that category of weapon is usually used by warriors (though Everquest did a wonderful job of blurring that line, and Torm killing Bane with Duty's Bond, didn't help either).

So, before people spout cheese or state this is not a Holy Avenger, please tell me why you think so, instead of just throwing those comments out here.

I am trying to make a Holy Avenger, it is in the works, I am taking suggestions, not bashings for trying

Bah, guess it is my fault for asking people what they think, should of said suggestions for improvement.

Keep in mind though, I'm trying to make this weapon as one in the service of the god Helm, God of Protectors and Guardians.

Orland

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 12:14 am

Not knowing anything about AD&D rules and all that stuff - but just looking at the weapon, it doesn't seemed overpowerd.
What people (I think) are over looking is that is dosen't do 1D12 base damage but 2D4 base damage.

I think you could make it one handed if you wanted, it would still be plausible.

(IMO)

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 9:20 am

Originally posted by Orland:
Ok, let's start out by fixing one mistake I made: It shouldn't be +10 for Chaotic Aligned, but +10 against Chaotic Aligned.

Poor chaotic good and chaotic neutral, they did not do anything wrong but now there is a holy avenger that does not like those people...

Next off, I do own the D&D 3rd Edition Books and I have read them a couple of times and nowhere does it give an example of a Holy Avenger. It refers to a paladin getting one crafted or being blessed by his/her god with said weapon (ex: finding the weapon after a long and perilous adventure)

.

And I do own the 2nd edition books and its there, in the equipement list.
I also happen to own "The complete paladin handbook" that deals with paladins and their equiment.
Trust me, the weapon in the game is as close that it can get.

While I have no doubt that Carsomyr is a Holy Avenger, I highly doubt it is the standard by which to set all holy avengers. What do I mean?

But it is, weapons like a holy avenger are not easy to come by, Keldorn does even have one and he is a very old and repected paladin.

No respectable paladin, unless they by some estranged chance follow Torm (A Lesser God), would use a 2 handed sword as that category of weapon is usually used by warriors (though Everquest did a wonderful job of blurring that line, and Torm killing Bane with Duty's Bond, didn't help either).

Err....Keldorn follows Torm and Torm is one of the Gods that have a lot of paladins on his service (Tyr is the one that have more) and after him, its Helm.
And what does Everquest have to do with AD&D in the first palce?

So, before people spout cheese or state this is not a Holy Avenger, please tell me why you think so, instead of just throwing those comments out here.

Anything that is +5 and gives 50% MR is a powerful weapon that is hard to come by, giving more powers to it makes it a artifact.
I got nothing agaist artifacts but artifacts are "one-of-the-kind" and very powerful.

I am trying to make a Holy Avenger, it is in the works, I am taking suggestions, not bashings for trying

O.K. you can try to make a more powerful version of a Holy Avenger sword but, like I said, the one in the game is as close to the AD&D version as it can get.
And like I said, above that, its a artifact.

Bah, guess it is my fault for asking people what they think, should of said suggestions for improvement.

Its very powerful.

Keep in mind though, I'm trying to make this weapon as one in the service of the god Helm, God of Protectors and Guardians.

Even by making it a bastard sword, the balance of lowering the damage potecial is removed by the fact of the lower speed.
Its requires 14 Str but its not much, "Shield of Baldurien" is quite powerful and the way to make it less uber was a -1 to Str.

I think that your weapon is unbalanced, too many powerful effects and not a single drawback.
That is what I think.

Edit: error.

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Drakron Du´Dark ]

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 10:51 am

What do you mean "cheese"? I did not realise powerful weapons could be forged out of dairy products (but then there is that cow in Black and White...)

Thank you!

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:29 am

From The Complete Paladin's Handbook.

Holy Sword

A holy sword is a special type of consecrated weapon that provides a paladin with unique benefits. Though the sword +5, Holy Avenger (described in the Appendix of the DMG) is one of the more common examples, others exist as well. A few are described in Chapter 6 of this book.
Aside from their exceptional craftsmanship, holy swords are often indistinguishable from ordinary magical weapons. A paladin may not become aware of the sword's special powers until he uses it. In some cases, a paladin may be able to identify a holy sword by its cryptic inscription (which may require the Ancient Languages proficiency or a friendly mage's read magic spell to translate). A skilled weaponsmith or sage may also recognize a holy sword. Occasionally, a holy sword will glow when touched by a paladin, or the paladin's arm may tingle when he picks it up.
Holy swords are hard to come by, and a paladin rarely finds more than one in his entire career. Usually, a paladin acquires a holy sword under difficult or extraordinary circumstances. A holy sword may be part of a venerable red dragon's treasure horde, concealed in a cave atop a high mountain. A paladin may hear rumors of a holy sword buried in a desert ruins; in fact, the ruins contain a map that shows the actual location of the holy sword, embedded in a glacier in an arctic wilderness. If a paladin reaches a high level without acquiring a holy sword, his deity might direct him to one in a temple on the ocean floor or a treasure chest on a remote island. In any case, the DM should treat the acquisition of a holy sword as a significant campaign event, and design the circumstances of its discovery accordingly.
When unsheathed and held by a paladin, every holy sword projects a circle of power 10 feet in diameter. The paladin's hand serves as the center of the circle. The circle moves with the paladin and persists as long as he grips the sword. The sword projects the circle even if a glove, gauntlet, or bandage covers the paladin's hand.
Note: The first sentence in the paragraph regarding the paladin's holy sword in Chapter 3 of the PH (page 27) should read: "A paladin using a holy sword projects a circle of power 10 feet in diameter when the sword is unsheathed and held."
Within its range, the circle of power dispels all hostile magic of a level less than or equal to the paladin's experience level and creates a magic resistance of 50%. Specifically:

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:39 am

More from the hand book..

Holy Swords

Each of these holy swords has all the special characteristics discussed in Chapter 2, in addition to the specific benefits given in their individual descriptions. The bonuses (+3, +4, and so on) apply to both attack and damage rolls. In the hands of any character other than a paladin, all of these holy swords perform as swords +2.

Sword +3 purifier. When a paladin holds this weapon in front of him, he turns undead as a cleric of equal level; a 3rd-level paladin turns undead with the same effectiveness as a 3rd-level cleric (use Table 19 in Chapter 4). The paladin must be of 3rd level or higher to turn undead, with or without this sword. Ghosthunters receive no turning bonus.
The sword provides two benefits to paladins of all levels: a +5 bonus against all undead; and +2 bonus to saving throws against undead magical attacks, including a ghoul's paralyzing touch and a vampire's charm.

Sword +4 divine protector. This sword alerts the paladin to the presence of evil by generating a soft hum that only he can hear. The sword detects evil within a 60-foot-radius of the paladin, but does not indicate the direction or intensity of the source. The hum is automatic, so long as the sword remains on the paladin's person. The hum is loud enough to awaken the paladin from a normal sleep, alert him to an ambush, or warn him of an evil character behind his back. Otherwise, the sword has all of the benefits and limitations of the paladin's detect evil intent ability, described in Chapter 2.
Additionally, if the paladin spends one full round swinging this sword over his head, all evil creatures and characters within a 60-foot-radius hear a disturbing sirenlike sound, audible only to them. Any affected creature or character who fails to save vs. paralyzation will continue to hear the siren ringing in his ears for the next 2-5 (1d4+1) rounds, with similar effects as a deafness spell (unable to hear any sounds, -1 penalty to surprise rolls, and a 20% chance of miscasting spells with verbal components).

Sword +4 invigorator. If the paladin heals a damaged creature or character by laying on hands, then touches him with this sword, the amount of recovered hit points increases by half. For instance, if a 6th-level paladin has just restored 12 hit points by laying on hands, the sword restores an additional 6 points.

Sword +5 hallowed redeemer. Not only does this sword project a 10-foot-diameter circle of power, it also causes all evil characters and creatures within the area of effect to succumb to the effects of a fear spell. The fear effects may be avoided by a successful saving throw vs. spell.

[ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Weasel ]

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 10:36 pm

Thanks Weasel for the info and I see your points Drakron. I'll work on a more plausable sword and present it shortly.

Only reason I made the comment about 2 handed swords Drakron, was most paladin players of 1st Edition, never considered using a 2 hand sword as a weapon, mostly it was Long Swords & Bastard Swords. Being I played 1st Ed and am now moving into 3rd Ed (never picked up 2nd, blasphemy, I know, but no group = no reason), I sorta have that stereotype still in my head. It wasn't till EQ, I saw a paladin use a 2 hand weapon, which my first reaction was "Look, a warrior wannabe". Ever since then, the idea of 2 handed sword and paladins has become somewhat of a norm, which to me, is just not how you play a paladin.

Oh well, with 3E pallys can dual wield...guess I better get used to it.

Orland

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Orland ]

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:02 pm

@Orland..If you want the book (Hand Book) I believe it's free at TSR or one of the others. If your interested I will see if I can find it.

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:10 pm

I'd appreciate it if you could Weasel.

Orland

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Jun 19, 2001 11:23 pm

Originally posted by Orland:
I'd appreciate it if you could Weasel.

Orland

Check your Private Message.

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 12:56 am

Did so, look in yours

Orland

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 1:12 am

LMAO

Done

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Wed Jun 20, 2001 1:24 am

Alright, I think I've got something...though, it still doesn't work for me (kills BG2 when I try to bring it in).

Anyways, here's the new Sword.
***********************
Holy Avenger: Divine Protector
Bastard Sword
1 handed
proficiency: bastard sword
weight: 7
speed: 4
paladin only
Damage: 2d4 +4
THACO: +4
effects:
does +5 damage to chaotic evil opponents in addition to other bonuses
casts deafen 3x a day.
30% magic resistance
stuns (save vs. spell), opponent with each strike.
*********************

There it is, tell me how this one looks

Orland