Is Haer Dalis worth having?

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Wed May 16, 2001 5:18 pm

I'm not sure if I should take him or not. My current party consists of:

Me (conjurur)
Minsc
Jaheira
Yoshimo
Keldorn

As you can see, I need (or want) one more party member. Since I have never had Haer Dalis, I was thinking maybe I should try him out. But I don't want to if he sucks

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed May 16, 2001 5:34 pm

I generally find HD to be useless, although opinions vary. I would suggest that you get Mazzy instead. She's excellent with a bow, and with the girdle of hill giant strength she makes a good back-up tank too. Plus she has "haste", and "invoke courage" in her special abilities which can be quite handy.

Irenin · Post by **Irenin** » Wed May 16, 2001 6:04 pm

Get inomen for double mage power.

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Wed May 16, 2001 6:10 pm

I thought about getting Mazzy, but there is something about that little thing that just rubs me the wrong way. Also, I don't plan on going to spellhold for a while, so getting Imoen is not possible (besides, I will take her in exchange for Yoshimo)

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Wed May 16, 2001 6:18 pm

I'd like to say Anomen, but you already have two tanks, so you don't really need him

How about Aerie? You might want to change when you pick up Imoen, but until then you'd have extra mage power, plus some more healing.

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Wed May 16, 2001 6:29 pm

@ Mr.Clark - Have you thought about taking Jan Jansen? He's a great backup mage, a great thief for when you lose Yoshimo, and he's funny as hell. No ones dialogue made me laugh harder! He's alot better than Haer'Dalis...
Whoops. Just noticed you have no true cleric. Jaheira's alright, but her spell levels can't touch those high clerical spells. I always find I need a cleric just for Holy Smite (love that spell). I would suggest taking Anomen. Do his quest right and he becomes a good cleric. Also you now have someone who will be able to naturally use Crom Faeyr and the Flail of Ages. Plus he makes a great third tank.
Forget Jan. Take Anomen... although both of them in the same party makes for some interesting stories!

ElvenKing

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Wed May 16, 2001 7:54 pm

The primary disadvantage to Haer Daelis is obvious--low hit points. However, the many advantages are as follows:

1) Although blades have 1/2 the lore of normal bards, HD will still progress to 100% by the XP cap, and so he knows magical items on a need-to-know basis.
2) Blades actually have the highest spellcasting level, higher than single-class mages or sorcerers and twice as high as multi-class mages. This means that they have their "Dispel Magic" outranks anyone except for the Inquisitor's.
3) By being a level 23 spellcaster, Blades are the only ones who can put Tenser's Transformation into their Contingency which instantly heals them and turns them into a level 23 fighter with 2 attacks/round (because blades can dual-wield) whenever their HP drop below a certain level.
4) By being a level 23 spellcaster, Bards do twice as much damage as multi-class mages with mid-level offensive spells such as "Cone of Cold" and "Skull Trap."
5) Bards get 11 stoneskins for protection.
6) Blades at level 23 have a base THACO of 9, which is virtually the same as a high-level cleric or a multi-class fighter.
7) Blades can dual-wield.
8) Blades can use just about every weapon. In fact, Haer Daelis, because he is a "tiefling," can also use the Dwarven Throwing Hammer normally restricted to dwarves.
9) Haer Daelis comes with a wisdom-draining sword which makes him as powerful as a mindflayer--when the wisdom of the target gets to zero, it dies.
10) Offensive spin gives blades increased movement as well as an extra attack--perfect when coming to the rescue of an injured fighter for some emergency backup.
11) Offensive spin also has a "Kai" effect for maximum damage, except it lasts more than twice as long as the Kensai's 'Kai' and it can be used for missile weapons as well as melee weapons.
12) Haer Daelis for some reason specializes in short swords, even though bards and blades are not supposed to specialize.
13) Defensive spin makes the blade unhittable, because it reduces AC by 10 at the drop of a hat. It lasts for 4 rounds, and can be cast one after another, during which time the blade can cast spells without being interrupted--especially if the blade is also stoneskinned, blurred, and/or mirror-imaged.
14) Although the blade cannot move while in defensive spin, monsters tend to move up to you anyway, and this is the perfect time for the blade to cast "touch" spells such as "vampiric touch."
15) With the ring of free action, a blade CAN move while in defensive spin.

--Riverwind

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Wed May 16, 2001 7:57 pm

Finally, with the girdle of fortitude, which can be used every day and then replaced with a different girdle, Haer Daelis' hit points will improve DRAMATICALLY.

--Riverwind

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Wed May 16, 2001 8:03 pm

@ Riverwind - Great work! Never have I seen such a convincing case for taking Haer'Dalis. I had no idea about the Ring of Free Action trick. Talk about a nifty bonus...
Sounds like you've used Haer'Dalis extensively. I've never kept him for longer than the Astral Prison quest, but have often wondered about how useful he really is. What sort of interactions does he have with other NPCs'? Any memorable ones? I've kind of abandoned my solo game in favour of a game with a small party of 3 or 4. Now you have me seriously considering taking him with me!

Anyway, thanks for the really informative post.
ElvenKing

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Wed May 16, 2001 9:02 pm

Thanks alot Riverwind. Now, thanks to you, I will be taking HD in my party. This Forum ROCKS!

Mr. Clark

Sabre · Post by **Sabre** » Thu May 17, 2001 12:09 am

The only major interaction is between him and Aerie, I think it only come up if you're having a romance with her. Check the NPCs section, I can't remember exactly what happens.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Thu May 17, 2001 1:28 am

Wow, I was all ready to make a case for HD, and Riverwind did far better than I would have done. Bravo!

I agree, HD is worth it, and the girdle of fortitude makes a HUGE difference.

HD had interractions with several other characters, such as Yoshimo and Jaheira, though they're minor in comparison to his interractions with Aerie. He and Jaheira snap a bit at each other, though Jaheira gets the better of the exchange.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Thu May 17, 2001 2:12 am

I like bards and especially blades. Even more so when I read that they can move in defensive spin if equipped with the ring of free action. Great job finding that out.

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Thu May 17, 2001 5:01 pm

The first time I finished the game was with a party of four including Haer Daelis. He got along with Keldorn, Korgan, and my PC True Neutral 10-20 Swashbuckler-Cleric. He kept saying how honored he felt to be part of the party (probably because of the high rep). Keldorn and Korgan by the way got along with each other too despite opposite alignments, they admired each other's prowess although somewhat reluctantly and grudgingly. Much of the time, Haer Daelis was "out there," as if he were in another world.

I've also soloed with a blade. Perhaps my most fun and exciting BG II experience EVER. The ring of free action effect I discovered very late at night--I thought at first I was seeing things, it was like, "defensive spin," and, [blink] did I just see my blade MOVE a little? Huh? And then it took me a while longer after that to try to figure out exactly why that happened, how long that had been happening, etc.

--Riverwind

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Thu May 17, 2001 5:47 pm

@ Riverwind - Thanks in large part to your very informative posts, I will be picking up Haer'Dalis for my current run through the game. Would you recommend picking him up at low level (ASAP) or can you wait a little while before getting him? The reason I ask is I hate picking up NPC's who have jumped up numerous levels and wasted (IMO) proficiency point picks. I very rarely agree with the proficiencies that the game assigns. Also, when does he become decent at lore and pickpocketing? Pickpockets I don't really care about, but I am getting tired of stocking up on Identify scrolls!

Thanks for the great posts, and for helping us all see a new side to a much-maligned character!
Kudos,
ElvenKing

Mr. Clark · Post by **Mr. Clark** » Thu May 17, 2001 6:27 pm

ElvenKing, you don't have to stock up on identify scrolls. You can just buy the glasses of identification (i don't know if that is the name or not, but it does describe them). They can identify items 3 times a day and besides that they are dirt cheap (around 2000 gp)!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Thu May 17, 2001 8:29 pm

Based on Riverwind's endorsement I'm thinking that I should give HD a fair try. Just a question, my pc is female and I have Aerie in my party. Do HD and Aerie still have their little flirtation if you're not romancing Aerie? (entertainment is always good)
I have at present:
pc - Paladin Undead Hunter
Anomen
Mazzy
Jaheira
Aerie
Jan (I wanted both a thief and a mage that would stay the whole game....and I hate Nalia).
I'm thinking of dropping Jaheira for HD, does anyone know how he'd work with my present party? Thanks!

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Fri May 18, 2001 1:16 am

Haerdalis suck, in minor battles where you dont wat to use magic he gets hurt, in mayors you would probably rather use him as a magicsupporter, where a real magic would do better, and if you want him as a tank, rather pick Jaheira.

Only reason to play bard is solo in my oppinion. Specialised roles are better in a party, he can do a lot, but not great at anything, leave the fighting to a REAL fighter, leave the magic to a REAL mage.

My first time through i had him, only to realise he never was used. So next time i used jaheira, who can help with healing as well as tanking.

PaulDenton · Post by **PaulDenton** » Fri May 18, 2001 7:11 am

1) Although blades have 1/2 the lore of normal bards, HD will still progress to 100% by the XP cap, and so he knows magical items on a need-to-know basis.

> Which is convienient, but not needed.
> If you have the glass of identification
> and a decent thief, this is no issue.

2) Blades actually have the highest spellcasting level, higher than single-class mages or sorcerers and twice as high as multi-class mages. This means that they have their "Dispel Magic" outranks anyone except for the Inquisitor's.

> True, but mostly that is not enough to
> dispel most annoying shields like Mantle,
> Spell Turning, etc.
> Besides, Dispel "dispel" all those protective spells of your party.

3) By being a level 23 spellcaster, Blades are the only ones who can put Tenser's Transformation into their Contingency which instantly heals them and turns them into a level 23 fighter with 2 attacks/round (because blades can dual-wield) whenever their HP drop below a certain level.

> No argument here.
> I am sure my level 19 fighter
> with +++++ in 2H Sword and a Full Plate Mail +2
> can easily take down the blade.

4) By being a level 23 spellcaster, Bards do twice as much damage as multi-class mages with mid-level offensive spells such as "Cone of Cold" and "Skull Trap."

> That is the only thing good about bards IMO.
> However, it can be easily countered
> by a real mage using wands.

5) Bards get 11 stoneskins for protection.

> Which you don't really need
> 'cause you stay at the back anyway.

6) Blades at level 23 have a base THACO of 9, which is virtually the same as a high-level cleric or a multi-class fighter.

> Which is still pretty high.

7) Blades can dual-wield.

> But you can't put +++ in 2W Style,
> so it is quite useless.

8) Blades can use just about every weapon. In fact, Haer Daelis, because he is a "tiefling," can also use the Dwarven Throwing Hammer normally restricted to dwarves.

> Which is exploiting a game bug.

9) Haer Daelis comes with a wisdom-draining sword which makes him as powerful as a mindflayer--when the wisdom of the target gets to zero, it dies.

> At the hands of a fighter, anything falls after two or three hits anyway.

10) Offensive spin gives blades increased movement as well as an extra attack--perfect when coming to the rescue of an injured fighter for some emergency backup.

> Which is still pretty limited.

11) Offensive spin also has a "Kai" effect for maximum damage, except it lasts more than twice as long as the Kensai's 'Kai' and it can be used for missile weapons as well as melee weapons.

> What is the use if you roll 6 on a 1D6 die?
> You can dish out the same damage
> if you have a longsword or katana.

12) Haer Daelis for some reason specializes in short swords, even though bards and blades are not supposed to specialize.

> Which is exploiting a game bug.

13) Defensive spin makes the blade unhittable, because it reduces AC by 10 at the drop of a hat. It lasts for 4 rounds, and can be cast one after another, during which time the blade can cast spells without being interrupted--especially if the blade is also stoneskinned, blurred, and/or mirror-imaged.

> This is nice, but he can't move!

14) Although the blade cannot move while in defensive spin, monsters tend to move up to you anyway, and this is the perfect time for the blade to cast "touch" spells such as "vampiric touch."

> Mostly, your blade is not at the front line,
> so monsters won't come to you.

15) With the ring of free action, a blade CAN move while in defensive spin.

> Which is exploiting a game bug.

> Bards aren't that great, are they?

RA · Post by RA » Fri May 18, 2001 8:19 am

you dont need have to buy glasses of id you dont have to spend mony so you can buy your magic license earlier.

You can specialise your thief better because you dont have to put points in pickpocket ( I've you want to, and dont have to make sure you are carying potion of master thievery.

They can cast pierce magic and breach so you get rid of those protections (with your fighter cant so he can wait until those where of) if you target dispell magic on your enemy you wont be affected.

then my bard uses the wand. No you cant take my bard down, with improved haste he has 4 attacks a round and tensers tranrformation a thaco of -3 and -1 with (or -2 and 0) And they can place +++ in two weapon fighting style. And dual wielding blackrazor and CF you are dead meat. Putting greater malison in my chain contentincy and cast feeble mind you are screwed (if you are not protected).

I don't stay at the back with my Blade, 11 stone skins youre fighter has a hard time hitting my blade, with defensive spin he has a armour class of -15 (bladesinger chain and ring of gaxx)

The use of the dwarven thrower is not a bug and the +2 in shorts swords also, look at jaheira she has also other cleric spells (exampe zone of sweet air). Also the use of ring of free action (it protects against EVERY thing that affects movement magical or not read the description at gamebanshee).

You also die in a couple of hits with girdle of hill giant strenght a had hits with my blad of 48 with is high. with the use of tensers i have around 228 hp so I dont die afther 3 hits.

So bards are great. sory for my foults in my writing. he was my protagonist so he had many hp.