Just a comment – spoiler

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Fri Oct 18, 2002 10:57 am

I got to the Guardian of the Portal down in Chult last night. I must say he is quite an impressive dragon as far as beasties go.

He seems bigger than other dragons I encountered in BG2…. I haven’t killed him yet, so he is presenting an interesting strategic challenge for my party. I’m running a Druid, Paladin, Cleric, Rogue, Ranger/Bard, and an Abjourer. I’m afraid I may have to use cheese to defeat him, but I quite enjoyed trying different tactics, failing, then lying awake at night trying to think of other ways to attack.

I also thought about the half-dozen times my characters were killed in terms of the Role-playing aspect of the game. Imagine you and five of your friends are walking through the jungle, and you accidentially conjour up a huge black dragon. Obviously, the option of dying six times before figuring out how to kill it is simply not an option. I would probably run like heck all the way back to Lusk! I’m beginning to see why dragons stick around for so long in Faerun, even though every campaigner wants to kill one or two. Very interesting.

I’m also thinking that a little cheese could very well fit in to a role-player’s world. It might seem that shooting off a Spike Growth spell while the dragon is hidden in the fog of war is kinda cheesy, but I like to think that I would be hiding in the trees and casting my spell at the area where I think the dragon might be, even though neither he nor I can see each other. Besides, Spike Growth doesn’t kill him, it just softens him up a bit. I’ll still need to confront him directly…. Hmmmm…..

jim0525 · Post by **jim0525** » Fri Oct 18, 2002 11:07 am

spoiler

believe it or not, i used a distintgration spell on him and took him down quite easily(had to cast it twice before he missed his save). if not for that it would have been a long battle.

1-800-DOCTORB · Post by **1-800-DOCTORB** » Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:44 pm

You don't need cheese at all to beat him, all you need is a few area of effect buff spells for your party like Strength of One, Mass Haste, Defensive Harmony, and my personal favorite, Emotion: Hope. A few Heal spells are crucial though. Just beat on him with your tanks (you do have two tanks right?) and when they start to die, heal them. You can also support with some Magic Missiles and other offensive spells. This was how I beat him and it only took two tries. Compared to some of the dragons you face in BG2, the Guardian is nothing.

free_fall · Post by **free_fall** » Sat Oct 19, 2002 2:11 pm

Aah, but if you and your 5 friends are walking through a jungle in an RPG, surely you'd have the foresight to be carrying some Raise Dead and Resurection scrolls, so dying *is* an option, up to the limit of your scrolls, of course.

In the real world, however, yes, the dragon would kill you and you'd be permanently dead.

Taralon · Post by **Taralon** » Sat Oct 19, 2002 4:50 pm

Well since it takes a ritual to summon the Guardian (all those whatchamacallits have to be placed), and since you've been repeatedly warned the the Guardian is some sort of incredibly powerful creature, it is unhighly unlikely that you'd "accidentally" summon him. =)

Destio · Post by **Destio** » Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:06 pm

What do you people mean when you say "cheese"?

1-800-DOCTORB · Post by **1-800-DOCTORB** » Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:41 pm

Cheese often means to exploit a bug in a game to gain an advantage or to exploit a game engine's limitations such as with Infinity Engine games like Icewind Dale 2. One thing I've done on many occasions is to leave a map in the middle of a battle when I'm losing horribly, heal up my guys and return and finish off the fight; that is a classic cheese tactic.

Gruntboy · Post by **Gruntboy** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 2:41 am

It quite often refers to "tactics". Using an overpowered weapon, class or combination of spells often draws shouts of "cheese". There was a lot in BG2.

For example, using a wand and casting 10 cloudkills in a dragon's lair (equivlant to artillery I guess)

Anything that isn't hard one and seems a bit too "gamey" I guess. But its often in the eye of the beholder.

Destio · Post by **Destio** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:32 am

K, thx

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:47 am

As Grunt says. I think of cheese as a way of circumventing the developers' intentions in a game by finding a perfectly "legal" (as opposed to cheating) by infinitely quicker solution.

1-800-DOCTORB · Post by **1-800-DOCTORB** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:48 pm

Then I guess exploiting a bug is just flat out cheating and not cheese?

Tharan · Post by **Tharan** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:21 pm

Cheese.... all of us used it more then once! Like the improved invisibility, dont tell me you 'never' used it. I know some battles your like "$&%&%&&*(&*&(&)*()^&(^& and %^*%%&*^ thats it ^(&*(&(*& improved invis" and then you can go bake nice pancakes while you pounding away at the unsespecting poor beasties.

But the dragon, may he burn in the abyss with his instant hit self, I think also puting a stoneskin on your fighters helps a little. And .... yea just pound him untill it falls over .... and if the option allows hit him while his down just to show him who owns who now.

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:10 am

Well, none of my front line characters are all that strong, and they couldn't take more than about 2 or 3 hits from the dragon before going down (even with stone/iron skins). The damage they dealt just wasn't enough to make it worthwhile and heal spells took too long. So, I ended up losing the dragon in the fog of war, softening him up with thorns and spike spells, setting several skull traps and glyphs of warding in front of him, and letting him walk into those. Then I had to set up my ineffectual thief to be attacked by the dragon, but I used the Otiluke's Resilient Cheese tactic on her. Arrows and magic missiles finished him off.

But, I didn't realize that the characters all get +5 acid resistance after killing the dragon except for the one encased in the Resilient Sphere! So I reloaded and used a Cold Bones skeleton in the sphere so everyone got the acid resistance!

I understand that the new patch fixes the monster AI so the Resilient Cheese tactic will no longer work. I think this is wise, especially for intelligent monsters, but I feel the tactic should be allowed to work against less intelligent monsters, like a hoard of spiders or raging barbarians.