Kayless’ Guide to Multi-Classing

Destio · Post by **Destio** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:31 am

Alright, thx for the advice.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:10 am

Don't mention it (sorry it wasn't more helpful).

baileyatbrats · Post by **baileyatbrats** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 11:17 am

(same answer; more words)

As far as IWD II goes, I'd say that the only real reason to multi class (besides some advantages like free ambidexterity for rangers) is to try out the varaint classes and use the special items limited to class. This is still very much a 2 fighter (or barbarian), one rogue, one wizard one cleric and one other class (or repeat of a class) game. You really only get to choose one from monk, bard, sorcerer, driud, specialty fighter - (plaladin or ranger). The need for healing would lead one to choose druid, ranger or paladin.

My party is weak in the fighting arena because I chose so many great classes:
Barbarian
cleric/fighter(Tempus)
monk(old order)/rogue
bard
wizard
druid

They're a fine bunch of people though. (and demi people)

If you feel like giving it a shot go for the multi class at level 16, but it shouldn't affect the game too much.

Destio · Post by **Destio** » Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:05 pm

I started multi classing anyways, heh

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 6:43 pm

That's the spirit.

DarkEntity · Post by **DarkEntity** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:30 pm

can i double check... the ambidexterity and dual-wield of ranger applies only if the ranger wears light or no armor??

if so, then if your class is a cleric or fighter that wears some heavy armor, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of multi-classing Level 1 Ranger?

In contrast i would suggest taking 2 levels of fighter (2 feats gained which can be both the ambi-dex and dual-wield which still works even if padded with heavy or medium armor). wats more u gain +2 to your BaseAttackBonus and 2x2 more hp:B

n.b. correct if any misconcept above. thx.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:38 pm

Originally posted by DarkEntity
can i double check... the ambidexterity and dual-wield of ranger applies only if the ranger wears light or no armor??

Right.

Originally posted by DarkEntity
if so, then if your class is a cleric or fighter that wears some heavy armor, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of multi-classing Level 1 Ranger?

Ditto.

Originally posted by DarkEntity
In contrast i would suggest taking 2 levels of fighter (2 feats gained which can be both the ambi-dex and dual-wield which still works even if padded with heavy or medium armor). wats more u gain +2 to your BaseAttackBonus and 2x2 more hp:B

Yep.

Originally posted by DarkEntity
n.b. correct if any misconcept above. thx.

Everything seems to be in order. Thanks for stopping by.

DarkEntity · Post by **DarkEntity** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 9:37 pm

wanted to correct, if u both ranger and fighters gain the same BAB (base attack bonus) at the same rate:B

if any1 has yet to think off... try dru/cle/ran or dru/cle.

of course u have to have a main class which i reckon should be the druid, the other class(es) supplements the heal spell slots. the druid is 3rd on BAB advancing (cleric is 2nd-rated fighter), but gains many many abilities later and shape shift abilities. i would suggest a 20dru/10cle (+/- 1-4lvls of either class if u want the higher elemental planar abilities).

question here... wat are the other special abilities gained after lvl 20 other than those stated in the in-game descriptions? i read somewhere somehow the monk has a "flurry of blows" ability.. wonder where/when that is... or are these "hidden" abilities supposed to pop out in the "not-so-near" near future? mayb the game developers could let us know so that we may plan ahead.. ya? (or are they as justified as the 3rd Ed class rules?)

one weird thing that happens... my characters sometimes get the (x damage resisted) thingee. some monsters like ice trolls or golems get certain resistance (from a few points to total immunity); and the way to bypass this resistance is to hit with +1/+2/+3 blah blah blah.. weapons (or sometimes even +5 might not work). but my characters (mon/rog, ran/fig, drui/fig) do not have any spells or eq on that resist any form of damage.

any help/suggestion would be good:B

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 7:08 am

Originally posted by DarkEntity
i read somewhere somehow the monk has a "flurry of blows" ability.. wonder where/when that is... or are these "hidden" abilities supposed to pop out in the "not-so-near" near future? mayb the game developers could let us know so that we may plan ahead.. ya? (or are they as justified as the 3rd Ed class rules?)

The Flurry of Blows ability wasn't included in Icewind Dale 2. I don't know of any hidden abilities either. However, the Neverwinter Nights version of the Monk gets the ability (maybe that's where you read it).

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:14 pm

I finally got the european version of IWD 2 yesterday ... I wonder, what I'll get out of this plan:

Human Barb 3 / Sorc XX (spellcaster with lots of HP)
Half Orc Barb XX (fast tank, heavy damage - mage killer)
Twin (shield and gold) Dwarf fighters XX (dual standard tanks)
Aasimar Cleric of Lathander (anti-undead expert)
Ranger XX / Rogue XX (tried that combo in NWN with success)

I guess most critics will mention that one shouldn't dc the sorc - but I just don't like the idea of him dropping dead after the first enemy area of effect spell.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 11:45 am

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
I finally got the european version of IWD 2 yesterday ... I wonder, what I'll get out of this plan:

Human Barb 3 / Sorc XX (spellcaster with lots of HP)

I wouldn't go for this one myself. A spellcaster doesn’t really need high hit-points (since they should be kept out of the front line) and 3 barbarian levels will really slow down his spell progression. If anything I would suggest a single paladin level, since your sorcerer will already have a high Charisma and the paladin’s Divine Grace ability applies your Charisma modifier (if positive) as a bonus to all saving throws. This combo only costs you a single level (which doesn’t hurt spell progression that much) and it stiffens your sorcerer quite a bit.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Half Orc Barb XX (fast tank, heavy damage - mage killer)

The Half-Orc Barb is always good solid tank.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Twin (shield and gold) Dwarf fighters XX (dual standard tanks)

Like the Half-Orc Barbarian, a dwarf fighter is a great frontline warrior (and I normally like to have at least two tanks in my party).

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Aasimar Cleric of Lathander (anti-undead expert)

Nothing wrong here.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Ranger XX / Rogue XX (tried that combo in NWN with success)

Minor Rant: NWN nerfed the combo somewhat by changing the nature of the Ranger’s dual wielding ability (preventing you from taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at higher levels unless you had a bunch of Ranger levels). Thankfully IWD2 sticks to the PnP rules. You only a need one Ranger level and rest can go into Rogue. It’s a great combo (and the most popular multi-class).

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
I guess most critics will mention that one shouldn't dc the sorc - but I just don't like the idea of him dropping dead after the first enemy area of effect spell.

The improved saves of a Pal1/SorXX will serve you better than the HP of a Bar3/SorXX I think.

All in all, not a bad group you've got there.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:47 pm

I originally had a Paladin 3 / Sorceror XX in mind and the character was already in the group, but he kept insisting on taking no rewards, so I dropped him during the prologue. There probably will be enough money in the game later - there always is - but he simply got on my nerves.

The half orc barbarian will probably get 4 fighter levels after reaching level 9, for the usual reasons.

Concerning the R/R, in NWN there was no reason to give him too many rogue levels, maybe this time I'll invest more into rogue than into ranger.

So far I have the feeling that having a melee heavy group is no mistake in this game ...

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:56 pm

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
I originally had a Paladin 3 / Sorceror XX in mind and the character was already in the group, but he kept insisting on taking no rewards, so I dropped him during the prologue. There probably will be enough money in the game later - there always is - but he simply got on my nerves.

As long as the paladin isn't in front he shouldn't interfere with rewards. If you simply stick the character in the back then you can accept rewards as normal.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
The half orc barbarian will probably get 4 fighter levels after reaching level 9, for the usual reasons.

I did the same thing with my Half-Orc Barbarian.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
So far I have the feeling, that having a melee heavy group is no mistake in this game ...

Indeed. Strangely enough, none of the villains want to settle their differences peacefully.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Concerning the R/R, in NWN there was no reason to give him too many rogue levels, maybe this time I'll invest more into rogue than into ranger.

Rogues are great support personnel. A rogue can do almost as much damage as your tanks when he's flanking his opponents and getting sneak attacks. All the skill points they receive are just icing on the cake.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 2:49 am

Originally posted by Kayless
As long as the paladin isn't in front he shouldn't interfere with rewards. If you simply stick the character in the back then you can accept rewards as normal.

Well, those other characters in the group are rather ... intimidating. He is the only charismatic person around. But I decided that 2 levels of barb will do, since everyone keeps telling me "don't dual your spellcasters".

Originally posted by Kayless
I did the same thing with my Half-Orc Barbarian.

I also thought about giving the dwarves some barb levels each for rage and heroism - but unfortunately they're lawful.

Originally posted by Kayless
Indeed. Strangely enough, none of the villains want to settle their differences peacefully.

So far I had two situations when people (or beings) wanted to talk to settle matters - unfortunately I didn't trust them.

Originally posted by Kayless
Rogues are great support personnel. A rogue can do almost as much damage as your tanks when he's flanking his opponents and getting sneak attacks. All the skill points they receive are just icing on the cake.

In 2nd edition fighter / thiefes had enormous potential, rogues combine even better with rangers now. I really hope they are as powerful in 3rd edition as they used to be. Those new sneak attack types sound pretty interesting.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Sat Nov 23, 2002 11:46 am

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
Well, those other characters in the group are rather ... intimidating. He is the only charismatic person around. But I decided that 2 levels of barb will do, since everyone keeps telling me "don't dual your spellcasters".

Indeed, spell casters shouldn't be multi-classed that often (and when you do, try to keep it to one level of something else, the rest in your spell casting class). One level doesn't really hurt your spell progression that much (which is why I keep suggesting the pal1/sorXX, since you only need a single level of paladin and the positive effects even out the negative). I can see you have your heart set on that bar/sor multi-class, though I really think it’s not worthwhile.

Originally posted by Phantom Lord
In 2nd edition fighter / thiefes had enormous potential, rogues combine even better with rangers now. I really hope they are as powerful in 3rd edition as they used to be. Those new sneak attack types sound pretty interesting.

Dual-Wielding is only really effective when you're sneak attacking (go here for details) which is why the ranger/rogue multi-class is so natural. The new 3E sneak attack is much better than AD&D's back stab, IMHO.

PoD · Post by **PoD** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 6:49 am

Maybe I shoulda read this thread first. I've gone dual-wielding. Mind you my character is a little unusual all round...

Aasimar, Paladin L4/Fighter xx (took L4 in Pal coz I think that a pair of extra healing spells are well worthwhile), High Dex/Con, not High Str, Weapon Finesse, dual wields short swords, took Ambidexterity and dual wield and started dual-wielding at Pal4/Fig5. See him mainly as a mage-killer. I often haste him, which may remove some of the problems with dual-wielding.

On another point I think that in IWD2 Monks are severely nerfed - this is because there doesn't seem to be any of the "gloves" or robes that made the monk in NWN so kickass. If I didn't already have a Rogue/Fighter I'd dual him to thief as main class. Gonna give him a few levels of thief at some point anyway.

Main tank is plain Shield Dwarf Fighter, high in str/con/dex and low elsewhere. Can't see any gain in multi-classing him.

Interesting idea about giving a Sorc 1 level of Paladin. However, as there seems no danger of maxing out in IWD2, you will lose out in top level spells and I can't say that my Sorc gets attacked that much when she's invisible (and high dex helps against area effect spells).

Have a Drow female Cleric. TBH I doubt whether it's worth saccing the two levels to have a Drow (but I love to have one Drow in the party), certainly not worth losing another level to dual-class.

BTW is there any point in having an Undead specialist on IWD2? Not seen many undead so far.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 3:47 pm

Hmm come to think of it it would pay off to give plain fighters one level of paladin (both for heroic inspiration and charisma throw bonuses). Then concious using of the eagle splendor spell would be a good way to boost throws before heavy engagements.
Considering that later on such spells can last even 12+ hours your warrior would gain almost constant bonuses. However his basic charisma would have to be like 10 or 11.
All you need is sorc with the spell , or a wand (those things sure are cheap to recharge).

Same thing goes if you need lotta dex for a dual wielding char.
Instead of pumping to dex (to get 22 dex for +6 bonus) give him 18 and use spells. Extra points into strg instead.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 6:29 pm

Originally posted by PoD
Maybe I shoulda read this thread first. I've gone dual-wielding. Mind you my character is a little unusual all round...

Aasimar, Paladin L4/Fighter xx (took L4 in Pal coz I think that a pair of extra healing spells are well worthwhile), High Dex/Con, not High Str, Weapon Finesse, dual wields short swords, took Ambidexterity and dual wield and started dual-wielding at Pal4/Fig5. See him mainly as a mage-killer. I often haste him, which may remove some of the problems with dual-wielding.

Hmmm... An interesting character, but not really min/maxed (since he’s dual wielding). Most melee types will do better with high str and a two-handed weapon, whereas the rogue really shines with dual short swords (and they make better mage slayers IMHO).

Originally posted by PoD
On another point I think that in IWD2 Monks are severely nerfed - this is because there doesn't seem to be any of the "gloves" or robes that made the monk in NWN so kickass.

A single level of sorcerer works well for the monk, since you gain access to some nice protection spells like Shield and Mage Armor without really detracting from your monk skills (multi-classing works best when you only need a single level in something else; like a RogXX/Rng1, SorXX/Pal1, MnkXX/Sor1, etc.).

Originally posted by PoD
Main tank is plain Shield Dwarf Fighter, high in str/con/dex and low elsewhere. Can't see any gain in multi-classing him.

Yeah, he's fine as he is.

Originally posted by PoD
Interesting idea about giving a Sorc 1 level of Paladin. However, as there seems no danger of maxing out in IWD2, you will lose out in top level spells and I can't say that my Sorc gets attacked that much when she's invisible (and high dex helps against area effect spells).

I'm not sure I get your meaning.

IWD2 characters will cap out at level 30. A Sor29/Pal1 should have no problem getting the high level spells.

Originally posted by PoD
Have a Drow female Cleric. TBH I doubt whether it's worth saccing the two levels to have a Drow (but I love to have one Drow in the party), certainly not worth losing another level to dual-class.

Generally the races with ECLs aren’t worthwhile, unless you’re taking them for role-playing reasons.

Originally posted by PoD
BTW is there any point in having an Undead specialist on IWD2? Not seen many undead so far.

There will be more undead, trust me.

PoD · Post by **PoD** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:38 pm

[Quote:]
Originally posted by Kayless
Hmmm... An interesting character, but not really min/maxed (since he’s dual wielding). Most melee types will do better with high str and a two-handed weapon, whereas the rogue really shines with dual short swords (and they make better mage slayers IMHO).

I was kinda hoping that I'd get a girdle or gauntlets of strength somewhere in the game... BTW I've found that in the battle squares sometimes a single weapon is not quick enough, although I haven't tried with a 2-H weapon. Still one of the problems in just one weapon is the resistances.

[Quote:]
Originally posted by Kayless
A single level of sorcerer works well for the monk, since you gain access to some nice protection spells like Shield and Mage Armor without really detracting from your monk skills (multi-classing works best when you only need a single level in something else; like a RogXX/Rng1, SorXX/Pal1, MnkXX/Sor1, etc.).

The monk can get buffed by the sorc/cleric, whose spells last longer. Not convinced by this.

[Quote:]
Originally posted by Kayless
I'm not sure I get your meaning.

IWD2 characters will cap out at level 30. A Sor29/Pal1 should have no problem getting the high level spells.

Ah, I thought from posts on this forum that the ingame level you could expect to reach was around 16.

[Quote:]
Originally posted by Kayless
Generally the races with ECLs aren’t worthwhile, unless you’re taking them for role-playing reasons.

Yeah, I'd come to that conclusion. Bit of a pain really. They've gone a bit OTT on this IMO.

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:48 pm

Originally posted by PoD
I was kinda hoping that I'd get a girdle or gauntlets of strength somewhere in the game... BTW I've found that in the battle squares sometimes a single weapon is not quick enough, although I haven't tried with a 2-H weapon. Still one of the problems in just one weapon is the resistances.

Actually there are a few belts that add to strength in the game (though they might be random items, as I don't remember where exactly I found them).

Originally posted by PoD
The monk can get buffed by the sorc/cleric, whose spells last longer. Not convinced by this.

The Monk/Sorcerer does admittedly work best when soloing, but I also find it useful in groups since I tend to have my primary spell casters memorize more offensive spells. Your mileage may vary (especially if you prefer more defensive spell casting).

Originally posted by PoD
Ah, I thought from posts on this forum that the ingame level you could expect to reach was around 16.

Depends on the difficulty. You can really get up there if you play on the hardest setting.

Originally posted by PoD
Yeah, I'd come to that conclusion. Bit of a pain really. They've gone a bit OTT on this IMO.

Indeed. 'Nuff said.