Fighter vs. Mage

[Trym]

Though I opted for a fighter-heavy party, I do think mage parties are actionally more powerful in the end.

BUT:

1) mages are somewhat weak in the beginning of SoA.
2) they require constant resting which is simply annoying
3) When facing TOB's boss resting is impossible. You'll have a hard time beating the game when your spells are gone after the second or third encounter.

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by Trym
Though I opted for a fighter-heavy party, I do think mage parties are actionally more powerful in the end.

BUT:

1) mages are somewhat weak in the beginning of SoA.
2) they require constant resting which is simply annoying
3) When facing TOB's boss resting is impossible. You'll have a hard time beating the game when your spells are gone after the second or third encounter.

That's why we have a wish scroll and a simalcrum

[MasterDarkNinja]

Originally posted by Trym
Though I opted for a fighter-heavy party, I do think mage parties are actionally more powerful in the end.

BUT:

1) mages are somewhat weak in the beginning of SoA..

that's true and what makes it worse is how slow you gain up levels with a party of 6 which will make the mages be even weaker even longer

2) they require constant resting which is simply annoying

yeah it's also annoying if you like to beat the game as fast as you can (game time)

3) When facing TOB's boss resting is impossible. You'll have a hard time beating the game when your spells are gone after the second or third encounter.

TOB bosses have a high magic resistance and also save throws and magic resistance make you annoyingly have to repeat battles.

in conclusion I think that mages are weak in parties, it's much easier to solo with a physically stronger guy.

[liamwrig]

i vote mage heavy party, sure they may be weak but thats what stoneskin is for.
if you have 3 mages in a party you could cast time stop 2 abi dalzims and do the same with your other mages while the enemy is just sitting there, its sure to kill them. and shapechange is a good spell to.
my most powerefull mage killed a red dragon by himself (saladrex) and he also killed Abagizal by himself ( the blue dragon)


SO HEAVY MAGE PARTYS ARE THE WAY TO GO!!!!!

[fable]

I think a mage-heavy party is supportable in SoA, but in ToB, there are some monsters that are simply immune to just about anything you can throw out 'em except raw, physical power. I'd suggest trading a secondary figure in the party, perhaps a jack-of-all-trades character like Haer'dalis, for Sarevok.

[garazdawi]

If you ever come up against THAT kind of opponent, summon as many planetars as you can or maybe a deamon or two. Besides the only ones that I can rember that magic does not affect are liches and rakshasa, they r are only immune to level 9 and level 5 spells respectivaly. So if you use a dragon breath on kangaxx he is blown to bits .

@Fable are there any other creatures that are immune to magic?

[Bruce Lee]

I am pretty sure liches are immune to spell levels 1-7 and rakshasas ae immune to spell levels 1-7. I am quite sure that the demi-lich is immune to magic period and that draons breath wont affect him.
Mages are better to solo with and fighters are more suited to bigger parties imho.

[Littiz]

Mages are unbelievably underextimated here.

There's NO single enemy a mage can't win.
And actually they can run through ToB as fast as Hell, if needed.
With a mage heavy party no battle lasts more than two rounds
(ehm, EXTERNAL time...)
Actually, I have to say, mages SHINE in ToB

And if you like cheese, resting is only a memory
Project Images, Wish (even better, Endless Spells) make it obsolete

Demi-liches are WAY easier with mages than with fighters

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by Bruce Lee
I am pretty sure liches are immune to spell levels 1-7 and rakshasas ae immune to spell levels 1-7. I am quite sure that the demi-lich is immune to magic period and that draons breath wont affect him.
Mages are better to solo with and fighters are more suited to bigger parties imho.

Demiliches are immune to level 1-9 spells IIRC or rather if someone told me correctly. Therefore lvl 10 spell go all the way.

I'll check this out soon as I'm just looking for a prot from magic scroll (anyone know where to find one?) and than I'll challange kangaxx with my lvl 26 solo sorc

[UserUnfriendly]

garazdawi, kangy, the skull form takes one dragon breath and dies....

this is how i usually do it, a triple abu via chain to kill the first form, and a dragon to kill the skull...

use spell immunity abby for imprison, and deathward for howl...

littiz is right, but hey, i just realized, we are both knowledgeable about cheese...with a little cheese, i took bun bun, aerie, nalia jahiera tashia and imoen and beat sola mod, including eclipse...

having almost every member of the party cast dragon breath ends most battles really quick...

say littiz, you realize with one sorc and multiple mages in party, endless spells become even more obscene???

say you save before a major fight, like improved bodhi, and you get waxed....so reload, and you decide on a whole new spell strategy,,,

so erase the spells currently memorized by your mages, and use endless spells to refresh everyones spell tables with your new selection... reconfigurable on the fly spell tables...

[Littiz]

Actually this is not how Endless Spells works.
The point is making the Spell selection once, and never
exhausting it.

Of course with a party of mages you'll have all the variety you
need....

And yes, I proposed to do even a sorc version, then thought that
it was too scaring!
So it's left to the reader!

[UserUnfriendly]

true, you can refresh your spells anytime you want, but think of it this way.....

you are making mages sorta like sorcs.....slightly less powerful than wild mages, but still sorcs.....

cause you can literally reconfigure your spell selection on the fly, you can in fact tailor select a mage's spell table anytime...of course you can do that with resting....

but as soon as you think of a new idea, like protection from magic energy for slayer buffing, you simply do it, quickly and effectively, instead of resting the party to get one stinking spell memorized....

hmmm...ritual is timer based too...

[UserUnfriendly]

sorc version is easy....

have pc a sorc, with all the combat spells you can think of, with robe of vecy, and amulet of power, for major spell speed assist, and flame arrows, and abus...

a second buffing and summoning sorc, tashia or kelsey in the party with image spells and power word kill....

so when spells run low, kelsey or tashia uses images to refresh everyones spells...

say, does this refresh aerie's cleric spells???

has anyone tested it yet???

[Littiz]

User, but you're hopeless!!
It won't work

Maybe when you'll try you'll see yourself

[UserUnfriendly]

i follow the cheese, the cheese stands alone...

giggle....

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
garazdawi, kangy, the skull form takes one dragon breath and dies....

I'm just gonna confirm this. It's amazing how easy he is. Just three Abi Dhalzims and the first shape is dead. And then one db and the skull is dead.

[UserUnfriendly]

i wonder if it can be killed by multiple summon cow.....

its not a spell placed in the game, but "scrlzz" can summon a cow to be dropped on your enemies...so i am going to bovine kangy to death when i fix my current problems with multi mods....

i know its a level 2 spell, but hey, guess what? melf meteors is a level 4 spell, and it still works on demi liches...

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
i know its a level 2 spell, but hey, guess what? melf meteors is a level 4 spell, and it still works on demi liches...

melf meteor works on everybody you ever meet IIRC

[lompo]

MMM is a lvl 3 spell.
BTW I think a balaced party is the best.
I agree that in BG2 Wiz&Sor more powerfull than fighters: at very high lvl some spells are very powerfull and contingencies, triggers and the two spells "time stop" and "imprisonement" are too much unbalancing (Littiz made clear demonstration about that).
But by a roleplaying point of view you should set contingencies in advance and you shouldn't know what's is in front of you; in that case you need fighters to buy your mages time to set up all the protections, to summon helps and to throw spells to the enemy without getting targeted.
So my ideal team is (of six): the 2 best fighters, Inquisitor and Berserker;
2 mages, a pure mage (or sorc.) and a multi/dual mage (best with thief); 1 cleric/(druid), possibly better with fighting abilities; and the 6th char. is free.
I am actually using:
1st team
PC, Inquisitor
Minsc
Valigar
Jaheira
Aerie
Imoen
2nd team
PC, Kensai/Mage
Korgan
Viconia
Jan
Edwin
Sarevok (planned)

[Bruce Lee]

Precisely!
And also... at higher levels mage+mage=mage but fighter+fighter=2 fighters. What I am trying to say is that spells such as timestop,improved alacrity, project image and simulacrum means that one mage can be just as effective as two mages.
So a mage heavy party is not as effective as a fighter heavy party, and as you said is more dependant on knowledge about what lies ahead than a fighter heavy party.
Right now I am running a balanced team of just me, halfling swashbuckler(IMHO the best class for the PC) and aerie. Pretty smooth sofar.