The Baldur's Gate Series - Analysis *Series Spoilers*

[Littiz]

You put that perfectly Vondondu. But don't forget music, that plays a great
role in Torment, and the overall feel!

@Serje: definitely try Torment. There's also an unofficial Italian Translation for
the game, they say it's really well done (not tried yet) : here's the link

[Quitch]

The thing is that you do not want a game that is 10 CDs big when you release it. BG1 was 5 CDs with crappy graphics if you compare to BG2, imagine putting all of BG1 into the graphics of BG2 and then expanding the world you are in to be as big as the one in BG2, you are looking on 10 CDs minimum, and 7-8 gigs of space for a full installation

Actually, BG2 is a bigger game with a larger footprint, however the compression techniques used for the second game were better than those used on the first, hence why it uses less CDs.

[serjeLeBlade]

Originally posted by Littiz
@Serje: definitely try Torment. There's also an unofficial Italian Translation for
the game, they say it's really well done (not tried yet) : here's the link

Thanks... But I like the original language better.
You know, I'm playing even BG2 in english!

[Littiz]

Originally posted by serjeLeBlade
Thanks... But I like the original language better.
You know, I'm playing even BG2 in english!

Same for me, but in Torment, as far as I can tell, there's a combination of arcaic
english, odd dialects and neologisms...
I had a very hard time, and I've lost much of a game that's almost entirely filled
with dialogs. That's the reason that led to the translation project..
Though your english seems better and smoother than mine, I'd keep the link, just
in case

[fable]

Same for me, but in Torment, as far as I can tell, there's a combination of arcaic english, odd dialects and neologisms...

I don't recall any neologisms in PS:T--which ones are you referring to?--nor any archaic English, but there is occasional recourse to what we might call "flavorful" English phrases that are roughly 100 years out of date, and the kind of thing you'd expect to find in some lower class London neighborhoods today.

There are also plenty of double-edged puns from the likes of Ravel, which are completely in character. After all, she twists the fabric of all things--the dimensions, the life of the NO, and of language, itself.

By contrast, Korgan's vituperative abuse in BG2 offers a masterly example of both dialect and "substitution vulgarities," a practice that vanished from regular usage in England in the late Renaissance. His constant recourse to euphemisms for four-letter words are fresh today, and wonderfully colorful. Of all the possible party NPCs, Korgan supplies the most interesting literary examples.

[VonDondu]

Littiz, I'm sorry to hear that you missed much of the dialogue in PS:T.

I think I know what you're talking about. PS:T uses quite a few words that I had never heard before, leading me to believe that a lot of them were made up just for the game. I'm referring mostly to the street slang: chit, berk, cutter, basher, kip, pike (a euphemism for the "f-word", as in "pike off"), etc. Besides the slang that everbody uses, there's also Hive slang, which Annah uses quite a lot. "Stop rattlin' yer bone box" comes to mind. Like other Hive inhabitants, Annah also has a very thick Scottish accent which makes her sound like she's speaking a different language even when she's speaking English. It's reflected in the text; for example, when she says "I do not want to", I think it's translated to something like "I donnae wan ta". I'm not a language expert, but I suspect that's simply a hacked-together phonetic interpretation rather than a true dialect such as Gaelic.

Ravel's grammar is a lot like Yoda's, for reasons I can't fathom, and as Fable pointed out, she uses lots of puns. Personally, I don't think that in itself makes her deeper than anybody else, but I do enjoy puns.

I think that most of the important unfamiliar words can be found in the glossary (accessible from the menu inside the game), and perhaps it could help you understand what the characters are saying if you ever play the game again.

[serjeLeBlade]

Originally posted by Littiz
Though your english seems better and smoother than mine, I'd keep the link, just
in case

Oh, flattery!
How kind of you.... Me pleased! Wants more... ?

I think that the problem @Littiz is addressing, and that's puzzling @Fable a little, is Planar Slang....
Which should have some specific name in a Planescape AD&D, but I can't remember it now....

VonDondu focused the language issue quite good using examples.

I could provide more examples (see below), as I'm currently using a whole set of Planescape manuals (in english) to master a Planescape campaign... here in Italy... and the only thing that really scares me, is just how am I supposed to translate planar slang in Italian...

I'm pretty positive I'll manage to figure out whaterver kind of Dark the Bloods in PS:T will be wanting to Rattle their Bonebox about while talking with me while I play PS:T... trust me you all Prime friends...

[VonDondu]

As I said, I'm not a language expert. It's possible that all of the words used in Torment were "resurrected" from various sources, but it wouldn't surprise me if some of them were made up by the people who created the language(s) used in Planescape. For example, having characters use the word "dark" when it actually means something closer to "light" (as in "shedding light on the subject") makes me wonder if it's a made-up word because: 1) I've never heard the word "dark" used that way before, and 2) it seems so odd. In any case, it would be interesting to hear whether any of those words are still in use today in the United Kingdom.

For what it's worth, Sheena Easton is Scottish, so her Scottish accent is definitely real. (I never meant to imply otherwise.) She has also played parts with an American accent (or less of a Scottish accent, anyway) and parts with an Irish accent, so she obviously has some control over her accent. I figure she changes it to suit whatever part she's playing.

I'm not sure why the inhabitants of the Hive have a Scottish accent (or something similar to it), but you're probably right: "The developers of the game are using the same techniques to make the dialect of the Planes sound more authentic, yet still be understandable with a bit of effort on our part." Whatever the case may be, Sheena Easton did a great job of voice acting when she played Annah, and to me, that's what really brought her to life.

[fable]

For what it's worth, Sheena Easton is Scottish, so her Scottish accent is definitely real. (I never meant to imply otherwise.) She has also played parts with an American accent (or less of a Scottish accent, anyway) and parts with an Irish accent, so she obviously has some control over her accent. I figure she changes it to suit whatever part she's playing.

I can't say I've ever heard her do an acceptable Irish or American accent, though she's been cast in such parts. She always sounds lowland middleclass Scottish to me. Not that I'm an expert, but I took a course once in various British and American accents, and developed a good ear for 'em over seventeen years spent working public radio management. Of course, that doesn't really mean much; but still...

From what I was given to understand, she was added to PS:T primarily as a sex symbol. Easton may mean little on the pop scene right now, but she was considered hot for a bit when she was setting up a love nest with The Under-Talented, Overblown Ego Who Was Formerly Known as Prince. Surely you remember the cut scene when she dropped to her knees near the NO? Morte never received such treatment.

[Littiz]

Old english, slang or new terms it's all the same for me
I knew about the glossary, but still I was too lazy to learn it before playing, or consulting
it while playing!
So, while I can play BG2 in english pretty "relaxed", Torment was almost a torment, you know.
(I seriously need some help in improving my sense of humor )
If you find slang or new expressions in your native language, in the first place you easily
recognize them as such, then it's easier to assign meanings to them..
Anyway, I'll surely play Torment again, if only to play again with Annah!
I loved her voice, too, who cares about accent and all

@Serje: you are more resourceful than I thought, I retire my advice..

[prateek]

By far, the best RPG series i've ever played was the BG series.

My biggest complaint? The end boss of TOB. I was expecting to fight Bhaal himself.

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by prateek
My biggest complaint? The end boss of TOB. I was expecting to fight Bhaal himself.

Bhaal is dead and in his death he forsaw his own rebirth, how can you fight him if he is to be re-born through you, dosen't make sense to me.....

[Quitch]

"Kip" is an old English slang term that meant a room, a bed or a boarding house.

Kip is sleep

"Mind if I kip here?"

I don't recall it being used as reference to a room... maybe

"This is my kip"

Hmm...

[Robnark]

Originally posted by Quitch
Kip is sleep

"Mind if I kip here?"

I don't recall it being used as reference to a room... maybe

"This is my kip"

Hmm...

while the former example is the only one likely to be heard nowadays, the use of 'kip' as a noun is another equally valid usage, albeit a rather archaic one. you will almost certainly not find it being used these days.

[VonDondu]

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
I have a little known resource that tells me that it means a room a bed or a boarding house. Most people may have heard of it but never seem to have used it - its called a DICTIONARY... I think they may be out of print now, lack of demand I suppose or replaced by spellchecker programs...

I feel your pain.

Unfortunately, the only dictionary I have at my desk right now is a paperback copy of The American Heritage Dictionary, which is quite useful when it comes to modern English words (55,000 of them) but which is a bit lacking when it comes to archaic words, slang words, adopted foreign words, and older English variants. The etymologies also leave a lot to be desired. I have found that one good way to tell whether you have a really good dictionary is to see whether it has the word "merkin" in it. Of course, even if you read the definition of that word, that doesn't mean it will make any sense. My old copy of The Oxford English Dictionary is currently at my grandmother's house. Yes, unfortunately, it's really there just for show. Good intentions and all that.

BTW, I don't use a spell-checker when I write. I never use any words I don't know how to spell.

[Commoner]

Hmmm I don't know this decent conversation degenerated into a discussion about dusty useless books (no offense intended). Well about Baldur's Gate series, it is embarrassing to reveal that I have yet to beat the final chapter of the saga. But, I do love the entire series.

Baldur's Gate I, in my opinion, was the best of them all. I liked the forests and the fields; it made the game somewhat 'open' (I don't know if anybody follows). Besides, when you travel from one place to another, I liked the idea that you had to travel everything in between (like you had to tread on six different cloackwood maps). Very strong storyline and truly wonderful graphics, it has. Also, the game itself was very carefully designed and well made (such as the descriptive catalog of many a'individual items). Arcane dialects and archaic languages added much charm to the series, as well.

However, the dialogs of Baldur's Gate series are very poorly written, though only in a grammatical sense. Sentence run-ons occur very often, and has anyone noticed the "[...] they are deviants. Let them rot in Spellhold." scene that 'judgment' was spelt 'judgement?' A very minor error, but easily spoils the charm that the entire game series has depended on to attract many a'gamers.

Also, in ToB, characters are ridiculously overpowered. Of course, as long as you have DebugMode=1, you are god, but there is no need for a cheat in ToB. Battles are so redundant and therefore boring. Plus, sometimes enemy characters are so hard that cheese is the only option. DO YOU SMELL THE STINK of uhhh... cheese? (Getting too excited here). Thanks to the storyline, the gamer (at least, me) is never quite as bored. Well anyways, I liked the old Baldur's Gate where different tactics in every combat was employed. Tis impossible to truly RP in ToB, my friends (too complex). Everyone should RP, and RP only, but they don't, and I say I don't give a damn, but I do. So please, enjoy RP before you go into the cheesing business (this statement does not apply to cheese authority figures, because they probably got bored of RPing).

[Bobsy]

Originally posted by garazdawi
Bhaal is dead and in his death he forsaw his own rebirth, how can you fight him if he is to be re-born through you, dosen't make sense to me.....

Plots should be creative. For two and a half games your real advesary has been Bhaal himself, in his manifestation in your blood and soul (providing youwere of good alignment). Fighting some ***** I'd only met at the beginning of ToB was a let down, since I held no real grudge against her. Had I been part of Bioware I'd have strongly campaigned for Mellisan to perform the rite of ressurection without your PC's own portion. I'd have also made it a one-on-one battle for maximum dramatic possibilities.

Ah! NWN inspiration!

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by Bobsy
Ah! NWN inspiration!

Now THAT would be a cool module.... when you finish tell me

[Bobsy]

If I can find someone to do the scripting for me...

[garazdawi]

Originally posted by Bobsy
If I can find someone to do the scripting for me...

I'm not altogether crappy at scripting, if you really want to do this I can script quite alot...the thing is that I don't have the time to create all the other stuff as I'm pretty busy in RL....