potential new player...

Krysalyn · Post by **Krysalyn** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:12 am

hello all.

I am thinking of buying this game soon.

I have read some of the walkthroughs, and have perused some of the threads here, lots of useful information!

anyway, I have a few questions:

for those of you which have played other games, could you please compare Icewind Dale II with other similar games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights for me, please?

also, if/when I get the game, I will probably try to complete the game with a group of neutral/good aligned characters... probably 6 of them to try out as many different classes as possible. I will use this first game to try out various skills/feats/classes, and to learn my way around the game...

then, I am thinking of making an evil aligned group, of probably 5 characters (because I plan to use some ECL races, and figure the slightly smaller party will help to offset the ECL somewhat) on HoF mode (again, for the extra exp to offset ECL, as well as for the added challenge) and here is what I was thinking of:

duergar fighter - tank

half-orc barb1/fighterxx - tank

tiefling ranger1/roguexx - for the free ambdex and dual wield, probably be missle support

human barb1/druidxx - for rage and shapeshifting, as well as spells

drow female cleric - healing mainly, as well as defensive spells

human necromancer (maybe another tiefling here?) - mostly offensive spells here

well, that is 6 characters, any thoughts on what I could get rid of or alter to make it a party of 5? does anything not work as I have it planned now? any recommendations for changes?

also, down the road I would like to try HoF with a very small group of char, perhaps just 2-3...

what would be good combos for small groups?

also, in general, are there various skills and feats which are extremely useful/essential? are there any that are completely worthless which I should stay away from?

thanks for your help.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:22 am

IWD series focus on more actions than side quests on BG series. You have intense hack and slash game playing IWD. As for NWN it looks like a Dungeon Siege game w/ ADND rules to me. And NWN lack of 6 party feat - you can only hire one henchman at one time. The bottom line is IWD got less side quests than BG or NWN.

As for Char generation, I shall leave it to Kayless. He's got better knowledge on dual class or multiclass

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:45 am

Originally posted by Krysalyn

here is what I was thinking of:

duergar fighter - tank

half-orc barb1/fighterxx - tank

tiefling ranger1/roguexx - for the free ambdex and dual wield, probably be missle support

human barb1/druidxx - for rage and shapeshifting, as well as spells

drow female cleric - healing mainly, as well as defensive spells

human necromancer (maybe another tiefling here?) - mostly offensive spells here

This line up is very similar to my own

Shield Dwarf fighter (single and favoured class)
Wild elf Monk Of The Dark Moon 3/Sorceress xx (Favoured class - Sorceress)
Tiefling ranger1/rogue xx (favoured class - rogue)
Half elf barb1/druid xx (favoured class druid)
Drow female cleric (single and favoured class)
Moon elf conjuror (single class, favoured class wizard)

This has proven to be a nicely balanced party, they have just met their first tactical challenge in Chapter 5

My most valuable party members have proven to be my druid and my cleric, both have complimenting spell books and both are easily tanked.

If I had to choose to drop one of my party members, it would probably be the rogue since so far I have found little need for his thieving skills. With regards to reducing the number of characters in your party, I might suggest a couple of levels of rogue, then progress as a fighter so you can discard your ranger/rogue and one of your tanks and still have the rogue skills in what would be your second tank. Just my own thoughts

Also, when dualling, take care to ensure that one of the chosen classes is a preferred class for the race, otherwise you will suffer a penalty if the classes become more that one level apart.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 12:01 pm

The barb1/druidX is a real killer, Ysh, and fun too.
Pretty well-balanced team otherwise. BTW, does the half-elf´s favored class (any) mean that all of the classes work as their favored, or that none does?

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:00 pm

@Jaesha - I agree

A half elf will favour the class he/she is the highest level in, as with humans

True elves have a base favoured class, ie a Wild Elf favours sorcerer, a Moon Elf favours wizard, a Drow favours cleric....

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:01 pm

Originally posted by Krysalyn
for those of you which have played other games, could you please compare Icewind Dale II with other similar games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights for me, please?

also, if/when I get the game, I will probably try to complete the game with a group of neutral/good aligned characters...
then, I am thinking of making an evil aligned group...

I'm sure you've heard the IwD games are among the most linear CRPGs (used loosely) released recently. Actually, they tend to be more tactical combat-based than anything, and thats not a bad thing. The side quests and such are minimal--again, thats not neccesarily bad. Don't you ever get tired of the "go forth, fetch me this, and I shall reward you with a meager EXP bonus" quests? At least in IwD II, you won't be killing rodents or curiously large insects in some storeroom.

The fights in IwD II are usually much more challenging than in BG II. You will never have to worry about having an omnipotent char in IwDII; the same can't be said of BGII. On the other hand, with the IwD Standard Party (Tank, Tank, Missle Support, Thief, Healer, Spellcaster) even the toughest battles won't take too many realoads before they are won--usualy by changing tactics.

Don't worry about alignment in IwDII, it only serves to limit some items to similar alignments, and keep paladins and company on the up and up. The game will play out virtually the same with a good or evil party.

Overall, I like and recommend IwDII. While its no Planescape: Torment

, it is reminicent of the BG series while offering a unique feel and playing experience.

Krysalyn · Post by **Krysalyn** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:00 am

Re: Re: potential new player...

Originally posted by Yshania
This line up is very similar to my own

Shield Dwarf fighter (single and favoured class)
Wild elf Monk Of The Dark Moon 3/Sorceress xx (Favoured class - Sorceress)
Tiefling ranger1/rogue xx (favoured class - rogue)
Half elf barb1/druid xx (favoured class druid)
Drow female cleric (single and favoured class)
Moon elf conjuror (single class, favoured class wizard)

This has proven to be a nicely balanced party, they have just met their first tactical challenge in Chapter 5 My most valuable party members have proven to be my druid and my cleric, both have complimenting spell books and both are easily tanked.

If I had to choose to drop one of my party members, it would probably be the rogue since so far I have found little need for his thieving skills. With regards to reducing the number of characters in your party, I might suggest a couple of levels of rogue, then progress as a fighter so you can discard your ranger/rogue and one of your tanks and still have the rogue skills in what would be your second tank. Just my own thoughts

Also, when dualling, take care to ensure that one of the chosen classes is a preferred class for the race, otherwise you will suffer a penalty if the classes become more that one level apart.

you dont have a problem with so many spellcasters?

I see:
monk3/sorcxx
barb1/druidxx
cleric
conjurer

do your monk/sorc and barb/druid sometimes melee and/or tank for the others?

is there any problem with low hit pts with so many casters?

I can see your point about eliminating the ranger/rogue and instead giving a rogue level or two to a fighter... I was thinking that my ranger/rogue could use dual wield and sneak attack to do some serious damage to some of the tougher opponents later in the game, then bringing in the rest of the party for a slightly easier battle...

I would be slightly concerned that the stat pts (and maybe skill pts as well) would be spread too thin trying to have a fighter that was also effective at rogue skills. (btw, what are the most common uses for the rogue? picking locks, picking pockets, hiding/scouting?)

and yes, I will be sure to take into acct the preferred class before multiclassing, I really dont want the exp penalty, esp if I use a lot of ECL char in the party... I thought I was covered in that regard, please let me know if I am not... (half-orc barb1/fighter, tiefling ranger1/rogue, human barb1/druid... is there an ECL race can dual class as a druid?)

thanks for the comments.

Krysalyn · Post by **Krysalyn** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 10:04 am

Re: Re: potential new player...

Originally posted by Skooter327
Don't worry about alignment in IwDII, it only serves to limit some items to similar alignments, and keep paladins and company on the up and up. The game will play out virtually the same with a good or evil party.

I am not particularly worried about alignment. I know it is really just a paper tiger in IwDII, but I like to use it for role-playingn purposes. I have a lot more fun if my party has some sort of a theme.

personally, in any games, I have never really cared for a "cookie cutter" type approach. I will try to make the strongest characters and party, but not at the expense of realism for myself (i.e. characters with stats below the 5/6/7 range...). I like to challenge myself and above all have fun with the game... so alignment is just more of a personal thing that I will add into the game myself... I think I would have a difficult time pairing a paladin with an evil drow cleric, for example...

thanks also for the comments comparing the various games.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:15 pm

Re: Re: Re: potential new player...

Originally posted by Krysalyn

you dont have a problem with so many spellcasters?

I see:
monk3/sorcxx
barb1/druidxx
cleric
conjurer

do your monk/sorc and barb/druid sometimes melee and/or tank for the others?

is there any problem with low hit pts with so many casters?

I can see your point about eliminating the ranger/rogue and instead giving a rogue level or two to a fighter... I was thinking that my ranger/rogue could use dual wield and sneak attack to do some serious damage to some of the tougher opponents later in the game, then bringing in the rest of the party for a slightly easier battle...

I would be slightly concerned that the stat pts (and maybe skill pts as well) would be spread too thin trying to have a fighter that was also effective at rogue skills. (btw, what are the most common uses for the rogue? picking locks, picking pockets, hiding/scouting?)

and yes, I will be sure to take into acct the preferred class before multiclassing, I really dont want the exp penalty, esp if I use a lot of ECL char in the party... I thought I was covered in that regard, please let me know if I am not... (half-orc barb1/fighter, tiefling ranger1/rogue, human barb1/druid... is there an ECL race can dual class as a druid?)

thanks for the comments.

No I don't have a problem with so many spell casters, in fact in the early stages of the game I found I had to up the difficulty level at times

My monk/sorceress has proven not to be that great in melee - maybe because I chose to concentrate more on her spellcasting rather than her monk training

My druid, and my cleric, always tank with my fighter

and both are less inclined to be affected by fear.

I have not had a noticeable problem with overall hit points, just the usual lower hit points for sorceress and mage.

Regarding the rogue, I have mainly used him to scout. So far I have found very few locks/traps to have needed more than a couple of levels of rogue to be honest.

Re your covering the favoured classes, you have done that

You could always consider a Ghostwise Halfling (favoured class Barbarian) taking a level of Barb then dualling to a druid, I am sure this is possible. Also the dwarf races prefer fighter classes if you fancied a fighter druid. My advice though would be to take only a level or so of the favoured class in this instance and capitalise on the power of the druid

<edit> the only problem with the new sub races is that - even though their "effective" level equates to that of the rest of your party, their slower levelling up means that their actual level lags so they do not receive access to higher level spells until later than say a half elf or human spell caster.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:52 am

Originally posted by Krysalyn
you dont have a problem with so many spellcasters?

I would like to add to Yshania's comments that if one knows how to use offensive spells effectively, a spellcaster-heavy party is usually way more powerful than a melee-heavy party. Also, at the beginning of the game, most foes don't have much in the way of magic resistance.

Originally posted by Krysalyn
I am not particularly worried about alignment. I know it is really just a paper tiger in IwDII, but I like to use it for role-playingn purposes. I have a lot more fun if my party has some sort of a theme.

I see. I just assumed that you expected IwDII to have a semi-alternate path to be taken for evil parties, a la BGII. I agree with your choice to try and bring some roleplaying to IwDII.

One thing I think they should've done in the IwD series is to let the player create, say 8 to 10 characters. Then, the player would choose 1 to 3 chars to start the game with, while the game distributes the others to different places in the game. There could even be simple scripting for their alignment versus the party's reputation, or even some other simple, class- or race-based scripts. I feel this would bring a little bit more of a roleplaying feel to IwD, or at the very least make the player think about more than just tactics. Just my two cents...