Need your opinions on this...

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Wed May 23, 2001 10:33 am

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I am sure that you ai covers most of the strategies for dealing with dragons but what about traps? I understand that you set the ai to go hostile if you set traps next to it. But it is possible to set alot of traps well avay from the dragon and then lure him into them. This might be seen as a non cheesy tactic and that we should not try to buildt in a counter to it in the ai but I think this wrong.

It should not be allowed to set up traps in the lair of a dragon without its knowledge.
After all a lair of a dragon is its inner sactuary and in most stories about dragons they seem to be extremly aware of what goes on in their lair even when they are sleeping.

one notable exception is drizzit and wulfgar killing icingbane.
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Ok the only problem with the cheat for dropping traps is that the command SpellcastInnate is used by the dragon to check if you are casting this spell, and it only works within visual range.

The only way I see around this would be to create some more creatures in Firkagg's Lair in different places (far away from the dragon) that had scripts running that utilized a Global Shout to go hostile when someone dropped a trap (cast SpellCastInnate). These creaturs for all intents and purposes's would not be visible to the player nor would they serve any other purpose other than to alert the dragon of someone setting traps.

Also I was thinking about utilizing a check Range command coupled with a number check to make the dragon go hostile, say if your party is bunching up around him, I could add a dialog saying back up now or your gonna be toast, then when players moved closer the dragon would go hostile. Thus negating the surrond him from all sides trick.

Red Inquisition · Post by **Red Inquisition** » Wed May 23, 2001 10:52 am

Holy Crap those dragons are gonna be hard. I think these are excellent ideas and cannot wait fot script so I can kick some real dragon butt.

TVDinna · Post by **TVDinna** » Wed May 23, 2001 12:10 pm

I think clerics should be high on the list. A cleric can just keep healing fighters and other melees. A high lvl pure cleric could probably cast the heal spell a few times and they have some other decent spells.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 6:02 am

Keep the suggestions coming. After initial testing I am having to rewrite the targeting segment because it was so big it caused pauses while the dragon searched for the priority target.

I have eliminated the XP check from the priority chart, thus enabling me to use a smaller targeting segment for quicker combat response time.

Also most of the targets were of similar levels (ie your whole party is level 8-10) anyway. Priority will be still be assigned based on class and other checks (such as carrying one of the dragonslaying items).

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Thu May 24, 2001 8:12 am

KR

I really like your idear about invisible sentries - Sounds exelent.

I agree with red inqusitoin that dragons are going to be hard but then they should be.

great stuff

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If god knows what you will do tomorrow are you free to choose?

Red Inquisition · Post by **Red Inquisition** » Thu May 24, 2001 8:18 am

The dragon should only be able to see what the characters have equiped and not is in their inventory.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 8:35 am

The sentry part is done and it works good. I set a trap in the hall and Firkagg came running

. I have sent Kevin Dorner an email asking if he wasnts to incorporate that into the current Baldurdash patch.

RedInquisiton I agree, if they have the sword or halbred equipped where the dragon can see it then it will react to it.

aVENGER2k · Post by **aVENGER2k** » Thu May 24, 2001 9:13 am

KensaiRyu,all your work in honor,but you've got to remember that you simply can't remove the "cheese" from the heads of some irritating people

Example: you say that someone downloaded your patch,saw he couldn't set a zillion traps in plain sight of a dragon any more,and then simply went out of his sight and did the same...that's really exploiting a bug.You see,what I'm trying to say is,please try tom improve the AI as much as possible,but also keep in mind that dragons are NOT omniscient gods that know every single thing about every character's strengths,weakness',resistances,items etc and can predict their next moves.Even if you made such a script that made any kind of cheasy tactics totally impossible,those people I was talking about before would simply press CTRL-Y on a dragon and not bother with it at all,and sadly,so would many of the newbies that meet dragons the first time and consider them(almost) impossible to kill and so a waste of time.After all,you have to admit that BG2 is just a game,and not Pen and Paper AD&D so,sadly but true,it is *supposed* to be easier as it is commercialized and meant for general market and not some *all knowing AD&D experts* looking for nearly impossible challenges,such as us

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 9:38 am

I dont dispute any of that... however there is alot of room for improvement...The AI is very poor in that it treats the nearest enemy as the most dangerous...I am not trying to make It all knowing or all powerful (yet) however I believe you would be suprised at what you can script it to do. I know I was.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 9:40 am

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CTRL-Y on a dragon
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Also I could make them immune to that.

aVENGER2k · Post by **aVENGER2k** » Thu May 24, 2001 9:59 am

No,you can't make them immune to CTRL-Y,not really,unless you make them unkillable by wearing some strange belt/ring/helm,like Imoen in Irenicus' Dungeon,or Bodhi on the first encounter in her lair.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 10:04 am

The scripts are what control the game, how all actions are performed by the engine.

You can do anything in a script including making someone or something immune to ctrl Y. Their are pleny of people on Bgscripts who have done this.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 10:12 am

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sorry i have not gotten back to you. ive been away on vacation. it was the
spell SPWI907 that you open up with IEEP pro.
when you open up your spell with spell maker and click under spell effects
and then scroll the list till you come to Protection From Opcodes. its not
that difficult just read. their will be certain mumbers that pertain to
certain opcodes, but it will all be on there.if your still having problems
doing it i will email you the spell itself. its easier doing that than
telling you step by step. but of course like you said it wont protect you
from scripts..remember that one day when zelda was host...and i zapped ya.
you got mad and contolled Y ppl. notice it didnt work on me. thats how
opcodes will protect you. I was sampson BTW. No biggy its just a game right,
haha. talk to you later on..

Damon a.k.a sampson1234
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this is one way of doing it...(from an older post on bgscripts)I can find more examples.

If I say something will do something then it will. And I am insulted that you think so little of me that I would post something like that if it was not true.

aVENGER2k · Post by **aVENGER2k** » Thu May 24, 2001 10:32 am

Ok KensaiRyu,meanwhile I believe you can do anything in this game (you should really apply for a job at Bioware

),but I think you missed my point,and that was if someone wants to cheat than he'll cheat,you simply can't prevent that,even if you create the most powerful AI script of all times,the cheater could just download some "trainer program" or something like that and still cheat

Anyway,keep up the good work man,I for one can't wait to finally test my wits agienst a dragon as fairly hard opponent that it's supposed to be.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Thu May 24, 2001 11:13 pm

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(you should really apply for a job at Bioware
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I think if anyone was going to work there it would be Kevin D not me.

Also I understand that people will always cheat, (I know I did at first, look up some of my old posts and u will see that my fav tactic for killing the drags was cheese) However I am not creating the AI improvements for those people but for the people who want to not cheat.

After all in the long run it is much more satisfying to beat a difficult opponent.

A side effect of my new AI I want, is to be less vulnerable to cheese tactics, thats all, not super duper cant defeat as that would be no fun.

And anyone that cheats like that probably would not want to download smart AI just to ctrl y it.

NOW CAN WE PLEASE GET BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION?

I need more AI suggestions for my dragons...

As well as more opinions on priority targets.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri May 25, 2001 2:21 am

KR

I have been thinking about firkraag going hostile when you set traps in his lair.

Given this particular dragons willingness to talk maybe let him initiate dialoge and say something like "what the f... do you think you are doing?". If they persist then hostile?

This would be a bit like the covled in athkatla. Maybe also extend this to any spell casting in the lair. After all what would you think if a bunch of heavily armed dudes led by the son of a god started casting imunity to fire on themself in your lair?

Asuming of course you are a dragon.

How about it?

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Fri May 25, 2001 2:48 am

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Given this particular dragons willingness to talk maybe let him initiate dialoge and say something like "what the f... do you think you are doing?". If they persist then hostile?

This would be a bit like the covled in athkatla. Maybe also extend this to any spell casting in the lair. After all what would you think if a bunch of heavily armed dudes led by the son of a god started casting imunity to fire on themself in your lair? Asuming of course you are a dragon.
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I could do this easily enough, the only downside is that they would get two spells (or traps) one for the warning and one for the actual going hostile) off, anybody else think this idea has merit? Also I could also include a range check with him saying something like: "Back up or you are toast!".

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri May 25, 2001 9:09 am

KR

Im not sure if this is a valid point as i have never tried it.

If you attack and then run out of the lair will Firkraag be on the same hp as when you left?

Im sure this is not the case just wanted to check.

(if so he should have time to heal himself)
(or herself - could Firkraag be female? I know what you will say. Its Lord Firkraag. Well think about it - even if Firkraag is female surely she wouldnt call herself Lady Firkraag?)

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Fri May 25, 2001 9:18 am

You know Tom, I never that about that either. I will add a global timer set for a half hour of game time, so if you run out and rest, then come back, firkagg will be at full health. Or maybe I will make it 15 minutes game time as I cant see battles lasting near that long.

Thanks for the idea. Another good one. (I could even implement this one on lichs so if you tried to wait out their protections you would come back and they would have them again...but thats another project.)

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri May 25, 2001 9:25 am

KR

You know Tom, I never that about that either

Whether Firkraag is male or female?