The white rabbit's hole

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:50 am

As you might not have guessed, this is a Alice in Wonderland thread, open for all discussion regarding the story, spam is, as in all of my threads, welcome as well.

AiW is one of my personal favorite stories, the surrealistic and sheer weirdness really strikes me as a memorable thing.
The complete lagic of logic must´ve puzzled a lot of people in it´s time (and probably still does), but I found that I mentally almost "grew" by thinking closer about it.

What do you in particluar enjoy/dislike about the story, and what do you think of it in general?

Curioser, curioser...

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:58 am

Well its been a LONG time since Ive seen or read the story.

But Ill tell you what I really did like. The imagination put forth in the story. Because thats really what makes it run. Things are very unique and well thought out, IIRC. And the characters in AiW became instant classics, and have remained so. Everyone knows about the characters, and AiW has become more then just a story. Its become sort of an epic.

Its even spread beyond the movie and the story. Things like childrens shows have been modelled after it, and even going beyond that, Batman, the Cartoon series, had a villian named "The Mad Hatter" which allowed AiW to live in a completely different animated series. And even Tom Petty had a classic video that modelled after AiW, "Dont Come Around Here No More". So you can plainly see that the story has expanded and changed some thought. Thats good aswell.

Heh.

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:54 pm

Speaking of White Rabbits, wasn't that the name of some member? I think he got banned or something. Amusing guy.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:38 am

I liked the game.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 9:08 am

Jeez, only one member who likes the story?

@Ty; Yeah, I remember the mad hatter from the Batman series, that was a cool thing to pull, putting him into a modern children's cartoon.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:30 pm

Originally posted by Jaesha
Jeez, only one member who likes the story?

@Ty; Yeah, I remember the mad hatter from the Batman series, that was a cool thing to pull, putting him into a modern children's cartoon.

I liked the story, Jae, but its been a while. Seems to me some think it represents something else...

I think that Batman: the Animated Series was overwhelmingly cool, especialy compared to the rest of the animated crap of the day and those since. I liked the modern tech. meets art deco look it had.

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 9:04 pm

"Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking Glass" are wonderful stories, but I must say I was an adult before I was able to truly appreciated them . When I was a child it was just too surreal, but the more often I have read them, and I occasionally still do, the more the subtler nuances of the story come through. As an adult they have become two of my favorite tales of whimsy. They are timeless works that I truly feel I will never out grow.

BTW, the Walrus and oysters were among my favorite characters.

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:07 pm

What's the name of that story where the kids entered some surreal world through a wardrobe door?

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:15 pm

You mean the Narnia story? I don´t recall the exact english title, but it was something along the lines of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe...

They´re excellent too, but they haven´t got the same wacky edge as AiW...

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:17 pm

Originally posted by Jaesha
You mean the Narnia story? I don´t recall the exact english title, but it was something along the lines of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe...

That's it exactly...

Of course they aren't wacky, they're a Bible retelling, in a classical style.

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:23 pm

They were fantastic stories though, don't you agree? I enjoyed reading them.

C.S. Lewis was a fantastic author, in my opinion. Had a real style for re-telling a story.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:30 pm

Originally posted by Nippy
They were fantastic stories though, don't you agree? I enjoyed reading them.

C.S. Lewis was a fantastic author, in my opinion. Had a real style for re-telling a story.

Oh yeah, I love most of his work. That Hideous Strength was a hard read, though - I think you have to be quite knowledgeable about theology to make anything of it. It was about 5 years ago when I read it, though...

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:35 pm

Well, considering you've been boning up on classics I'd expect you to be able to understand more theological aspects of literature. I've never read that though, recommend it? Good Fantasy?

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 3:47 pm

I've just written this and it's unintelligible - do your best

Originally posted by Nippy
Well, considering you've been boning up on classics I'd expect you to be able to understand more theological aspects of literature. I've never read that though, recommend it? Good Fantasy?

What a lovely turn of phrase. Gets me every time I hear it

That Hideous Strength is the last in a trilogy called...argh...something or other. The first two books are Out Of The Silent Planet and Perelandra (or Voyage To Venus as an alternate title). OOTSP is the most accessible, about a man who is kidnapped and taken on a voyage to Mars by some very strange people, and then lots of weird stuff happens. It's been a long time, OK? In Perelandra, the same guy goes to Venus where some more weird stuff happens. In That Hideous Strength, I never worked out what was going on, but at least it takes place on Earth.

So that paragraph made no sense. I'm going to reread the books, I think, and I do recommend them, but not as light reading

It's well-written as always from C.S. Lewis, and if you like your fantasy theological then it's just the thing for you.

Oh - another recommendation is the Screwtape Letters - they're a great read - basically an induction course from a veteran servant of Satan to a novice. Excellent.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:16 pm

I failed my first quiz on that damn Narnia series. Go to hell you stupid wardrobe and take the lion and the witch with you!

That 25 I got forever stains that damn series.

Kameleon · Post by **Kameleon** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:24 pm

Originally posted by Tybaltus
I failed my first quiz on that damn Narnia series. Go to hell you stupid wardrobe and take the lion and the witch with you!

That 25 I got forever stains that damn series.

Do I sense a bit of blame-shifting going on here?

Scayde · Post by **Scayde** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 1:29 am

Originally posted by Tybaltus
I failed my first quiz on that damn Narnia series. Go to hell you stupid wardrobe and take the lion and the witch with you!

That 25 I got forever stains that damn series.

That is a shame Ty. Knowing your Christian backgraound, you should give it another read, but for the sheer enjoyment of it this time. It is an exceptional tale re-told in a very inovative way and a most enjoyable read

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:19 am

I've dearly loved AiW and TtL since my youth; more so as an adult, when I could better perceive the wry social satire that moved within Dodgson's wonderful whimsy. He really had a remarkable, if narrow, gift, and I only wish he'd exploited it more. With the exception of The Hunting of the Snark, I can't think of anything else of his of similar quality. I've read several novels he intended for adults, and they were uniformly appalling. He was just a man of many sides, and one of them was a marvelous storyteller--while another was a stuffy, conventional Victorian clergyman.

Of course they aren't wacky, they're a Bible retelling, in a classical style.

Concerning Narnia, I would with respect disagree. CS Lewis' view of Christianity had nothing of the OT in it. His first Narnia book and his Lion are all about accepting responsibility for one's own actions, and the forgiveness that is never deserved, but always given: two of the noblest aspects of latterday Christianity, which are never stated in the bible. By contrast, Narnia's Witch is about avoiding responsibilty, and never forgiving slights. I only wish all the later books lived up to the same quality, but a couple of them are sneering, malicious satires on the most superficial, misunderstood aspects of Islam. It's hard to believe that someone with such a deep understanding of one religion could so obviously misconstrue the simplest premises of another--but no, it really isn't. I'm just being unrealistic, here.

Fairmaiden · Post by **Fairmaiden** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:55 am

Hi Jaesha

When I was at university I sat in a class called the Theme of Degeneration in European History, Culture and Social Science 1860-1914.

I had to present a dissertation for my finals and wrote a long crazy essay on Alice in Wonderland and Alice Through The Looking Glass arguing that they were classic examples of the fearful post-Darwinian literature of that period, showing a world where God doesn't exist, nothing makes sense anymore and chaos rules, (it was written in 1865 or thereabouts).

In the 1960s some people thought the books were about drugs, about psycho-analysis, about mathematics, about all kinds of things. It was very interesting to research.

I recommend that everyone reads Alice in Wonderland again - every time you read it you'll see something new in it. That makes it quite a masterpiece, I think.

Jaesha · Post by **Jaesha** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:12 pm

The interpretation that God does not exist is actutally quite understandable, I think, as the story does create a massive chaos of it´s own.
Another interesting feature, I found, was the anti-climatic'ness of the fact that Alice suddenly "wakes up", which brings a surprisingly sudden ending to the story.

@Fairmaiden; What did you think of the animated disney version?