Apology for the spoiler

dafreak · Post by **dafreak** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 4:02 pm

Sorry guys if I ruined any of your games. I'm a newbie to this forum and did not mean to do it on purpose.

dafreak

onthepequod · Post by **onthepequod** » Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:11 pm

dafreak,
Its alright, from you're post I have no doubt that it was unintentional. My subsequent post "Topics that include spoilers" was not specifically designed for you but for anyone who may not have read your post and may unintentionally put a spoiler in their topic. Honestly, I was not trying to rub it in, just attempting to preserve the newness of the game from accidents.

By the way, welcome fellow newbie.

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:33 am

Please, don't apologize. You've done NOTHING wrong AT ALL.

If someone finds their game spoiled because they CHOOSE to come to a message board, then it's entirely their fault. If they really need help getting past a certain puzzle or killing a certain creature, they can and SHOULD consult a FAQ or walkthrough before jumping onto a message board. Open the FAQ up, search for "Kangaxx". BOOM. If they want class/kit suggestions, there's FAQs for that too.

Myself, I don't like having key story elements spoiled for me, so I simply don't go to message boards until I've beaten the game. There will ALWAYS be someone who comes in and spoils something in a subject line. Someone will always get mad about it. It's impossible to prevent, so go ahead and spoil away.

If you don't, someone else *WILL*.

People who don't like having their games spoiled will learn to consult FAQs and stay off message boards until they've beaten the game. They'll learn this via spoiler warnings around the link to the message board and at the top of the page(webmaster tip!), common sense, friends, or their own errors.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 5:20 am

i NEVER look on this bourd for help i dont mind if i know
Spoiler
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
you meet irenicas in hell then he turns into a slayer and usealy gets whooped by you

onthepequod · Post by **onthepequod** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 7:57 am

A Player,

You misunderstand. I am not mad, just making a request. Sorry if you take umbrage at my request, it was not intended as diatribe or to harangue but merely as a plea. Personally, I enjoy this message board because of the insight to issues like why do different gamers like different spells and what are their reasons behind this. I posted my request because I believe that the vast majority of posters would never intentionally ruin any part of the game for any other gamer. My request was for the sole purpose of letting others know that people like me are out there. Who knows maybe I am the only one.

The_Pope · Post by **The_Pope** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 9:45 am

Originally posted by A Player:
If someone finds their game spoiled because they CHOOSE to come to a message board, then it's entirely their fault. If they really need help getting past a certain puzzle or killing a certain creature, they can and SHOULD consult a FAQ or walkthrough before jumping onto a message board. Open the FAQ up, search for "Kangaxx". BOOM. If they want class/kit suggestions, there's FAQs for that too.

It's not because you like to finish a game before you visit any message boards, that it means other people have to do so as well. That's quite an arrogant post...

Most of the posters here hadn't completed the game yet when they arrived here, but that didn't stop the fact that they wished to discuss certain aspects of it, not necessarily the storyline. Hell, for most of them, BG2 wasn't even out yet! Also, they might just be here for another game, as GameBanshee covers all BioWare CRPGs and more. So are you going to blame them for coming here?

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:47 am

It wasn't directed at you. If anything, it was directed more at dafreak. He need not be apologizing. It's as if someone drives into a construction site where a skyscraper is being built, in an attempt to take a shortcut around traffic on their way to work. The driver wrecks his or her car into one of the Cats or a crane, then the guy operating the Cat or crane hops out, apologizes, and promises never to get in the driver's way again.

The only way to remain completely spoiler free is to buy the game, play the game, and beat the game. Note, no "read a walkthrough" or "go to a message board" in there. If the player can't beat the game after 10 years of trying, then the player loses. That's the only way.

Now, I can understand that many people simply can't lose, can't get stuck in a game for a month. If they do, they "haven't gotten their money's worth" or some such. Understandable. They should consult a FAQ first before driving through the chaotic "construction site" of a message board. They should simply use Find to locate the information in the FAQ that they need, then close the FAQ before their eyes wander. If their eyes wander, then it is their fault. There's still a very slim chance that searching for "Kangaxx" will pull up a spoiler about Yoshimo, but that would be extremely rare.

And to "The_Pope": As Gromnir would say, please read more carefully.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: A Player ]

The_Pope · Post by **The_Pope** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:10 am

Originally posted by A Player:
It wasn't directed at you. If anything, it was directed more at dafreak. He need not be apologizing. It's as if someone drives into a construction site where a skyscraper is being built, in an attempt to take a shortcut around traffic on their way to work. The driver wrecks his or her car into one of the Cats or a crane, then the guy operating the Cat or crane hops out, apologizes, and promises never to get in the driver's way again.

The only way to remain completely spoiler free is to buy the game, play the game, and beat the game. Note, no "read a walkthrough" or "go to a message board" in there. If the player can't beat the game after 10 years of trying, then the player loses. That's the only way.

And to "The_Pope": As Gromnir would say, please read more carefully.

ROFL!

Actually, it's more like this:
Dude A goes to a bar to have a good night. By spilling his drink on Dude B, he ruins B's night. In your reasoning, there's no problem at all, since B is responsible for being there at that moment. If he hadn't gone to that specific bar that night, nothing would've happened.
Interesting...

And the only way to remain completely spoiler free is when other posters don't post spoilers! If people want to visit message boards, who are you to blame them if their game gets ruined by anything you say?! Why do you think the moderators ask people to put "SPOILER" in the thread's subject if it concerns a certain interesting happening in the game? That has a reason, you know? Because players wouldn't be spoiled. The board is here for people to discuss the game. According to your reasoning (once again), if someone wishes to ask a question about the game, he would never get answered - except by the players who have already finished the game, since other people should use the "find" button

- and thereby not seeing the questions asked.

If a player can't beat the game after 10 years of trying, as you state so darn full of yourself, then he should post his problem over here. But what if he hasn't finished the game yet? Geeeeezus... Never vote this guy for a judge, logics aren't his best side... No offense.

And as Gromnir would say: HA! Good fun!

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: The_Pope ]

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:55 am

Actually, it's more like this:
Dude A goes to a bar to have a goodnight. By spilling his drink on Dude B, he ruins B's night. In your reasoning, there's no problem at all, since B is responsible for being there. If he hadn't gone to that specific bar that night, nothing would've happened.
Interesting...

It's not as simple as that, though. There are many other pubs to stand in and get pissed. A message board(the pub where the men in your example are standing) has a very bad reputation for spoilers(drinks all over everyone). If I, a pub going patron who actively dodges drinks(as people do with spoilers), went to a pub with a rep for winos spilling drinks on people and vomitting on the counter, then it WOULD be my fault if a drink was spilled on me, because I decided to take excess risk. Same with operating a power saw without a guard on it and slicing my finger off. Or juggling chainsaws instead of bowling pins, just to show off.

And the only way to remain completely spoiler free is when other posters don't post spoilers.

Incorrect. That's like saying the only way to remain AIDS free is for everyone else to simply not catch AIDS. If you are really paranoid about AIDS, you don't have sex. If you are the average guy, you use a rubber and only pork people you've known a while. Not foolproof, but good. If you're paranoid about AIDS, you do NOT engage in wild orgies with random people.

If people want to visit message boards, who are you to blame them if their game gets ruined by anything you say?!

Let me break this down for you again, since you can't seem to understand simple logic.

IF someone does not want their game to be ruined by what others say, THEN they do not listen to others. In other words, they avoid message boards. Why? I've already said why, but I'll say again in one second......

Why do you think the moderators ask people to put "SPOILER" in the thread's subject? That has a reason, you know?

It's because a lot of moderators are raving idiots. If a newbie decided to post a message with a spoiler in the topic, even assuming there's 24/7 moderation and the mod catches it with relative quickness and deletes it, the message can still reach dozens of people, potentially spoiling their game. Most boards do not have moderators who watch the board 24/7, and where one newbie is educated or banned, another appears to take his or her place as spoiler-in-topic-poster. Once again, the spoiler warning needs to be at the entrance to the message boards.

Because players wouldn't be spoiled.

I shot that down already, see above.

The board is here for people to discuss the game.

No arguement there.

According to your reasoning (once again), if someone wishes to ask a quesyion about the game, he would never get answered - except by the players who have already finished the game, since other people should use the "find" button - and thereby not seeing the questions asked.

And? A person worried about spoilers yet needing help should consult a FAQ first. That's why FAQs are written. Do you even know what FAQ stands for?

If a player can't beat the game after 10 years of trying, as you state so darn full of yourself, then he should post his problem over here. But what if he hasn't finished the game yet? Geeeeezus... Never vote this guy for a judge, logics aren't his best side... No offense.

*WHEN* did I *EVER* *STATE* *THAT*? You, sir, are an idiot. Please, go and die. You can't read. I could make all my future posts in the See Spot Run style, with every word linked to it's definition on dictionary.com, and you STILL wouldn't be able to read it. Please, die. When you do, it'll surely be worthy of a Darwin Award.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: A Player ]

Angelus · Post by **Angelus** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 11:58 am

Originally posted by A Player:
...
Myself, I don't like having key story elements spoiled for me, so I simply don't go to message boards until I've beaten the game. There will ALWAYS be someone who comes in and spoils something in a subject line. Someone will always get mad about it. It's impossible to prevent, so go ahead and spoil away.

If you don't, someone else *WILL*.

People who don't like having their games spoiled will learn to consult FAQs and stay off message boards until they've beaten the game. They'll learn this via spoiler warnings around the link to the message board and at the top of the page(webmaster tip!), common sense, friends, or their own errors.

Excuse me, but what rubbish is that?

I don't think you can solve all your game problems just by consulting some FAQs, because the people who compiled them don't have the same experience with the game that you can find on a message board.

What I mean are problems that can only be encountered when thousands of people played the game in thousands of different ways, and therefore where not noticed by the programers or the testplayers.

There is a lot more information available here, just because hundreds of people bring in their knowledge and experience.

Btw I played through the game twice before I knew that
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
Yoshi betrays you, because I never took him with me.

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:09 pm

I don't think you can solve all your game problems just by consulting some FAQs, because the people who compiled them don't have the same experience with the game that you can find on a message board.

You don't know what you're talking about. While there will always be some pretty sad FAQs out there, there's also very good ones with contributor lists multiple pages long. Dan Simpson has written a FAQ/Walkthrough for Baldur's Gate II, and it's positively LOADED with reader comments, suggestions, etc.

What I mean are problems that can only be encountered when thousands of people played the game in thousands of different ways, and therefore where not noticed by the programers or the testplayers.

FAQs cover this. Thousands of readers, thousands of people to correct mistakes and contribute.

There is a lot more information available here, just because hundreds of people bring in their knowledge and experience.

I agree, but much of the information you find on message boards that isn't in FAQs is just different ways to do the same thing that the FAQs cover. If a person is worried about spoilers, they'd use Find on a FAQ.

Btw I played through the game twice before I knew that Yoshi betrays you, because I never took him with me.

Good point. You've just made a good point for spoiler-paranoid people avoiding message boards altogether. Nice.

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:25 pm

The bottom line is this:

- A message board cannot be spoiler free. It would be nice if it could be, but there will always be people posting message with spoilers in the topics. When you educate one person who posts such things, another appears to take his or her place.

- I hate spoilers. Back in the day, I used to whine and flame when someone would post a spoiler. Then, I woke the hell up and realized that I was being spoiled because I came to message boards before completing the game, seeing the movie, reading the book, whatever. Now I usually play, watch, or read whatever it is once before going to a message board. In the case of games, I should probably play them multiple times before coming to a message board about the game(see Angelus's point). I've had a few things about BG2 spoiled for me after beating the game once, but that was my fault.

- If you're like me and want to avoid spoilers, avoid places where spoilers abound. I posted to give likeminded, spoiler-anal people a helpful tip.

Angelus · Post by **Angelus** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:43 pm

Of course, a message bord cannot be spoiler free, but is it realy that hard not to post a spoiler in the thread name?

___________________________
Btw I played through the game twice before I knew that Yoshi betrays you, because I never took him with me.

Good point. You've just made a good point for spoiler-paranoid people avoiding message boards altogether. Nice.
____________________________
That would mean you shouldn't go to a board before you didn't complete the game in every single possible way?

I read Dan Simpsons FAQ, but still an FAQ is just that, so if your question isn't one of the frequently asked (and there is a lot of those) you won't find the answer.
On a board you'll usually get exactly the answer that you needed.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: Angelus ]

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 12:58 pm

Of course, a message bord cannot be spoiler free, but is it realy that hard not to post a spoiler in the thread name?

Not hard at all, but newbies will load their subject line with spoilers, as everyone knows.

That would mean you shouldn't go to a board before you didn't complete the game in every single possible way?

If the person is spoiler paranoid, yes. If a spoiler would ruin their game on the second or third play through, then they should probably stay off of message boards, to extract as much fun as possible from their game.

I read Dan Simpsons FAQ, but still an FAQ is just that, so if your question isn't one of the frequently asked (and there is a lot of those) you won't find the answer.
On a board you'll usually get exactly the answer that you needed.

Sorry I called it a FAQ. It's not. It's a FAQ/Walkthrough with a bunch of other reader submitted stuff. And as always, if you have a question not answered in a FAQ, and the answer would fall within the scope of the FAQ, then email the author. If you ask about a weird romance bug you encountered to the author of an item FAQ, they'll flame you. But if you ask it nicely to the author of a general FAQ/Walkthrough, he or she will almost always respond with an answer. If he or she doesn't know the answer, he or she will often SEARCH MESSAGE BOARDS for the answer. FAQ authors write their FAQs out of kindness, and are generally willing to go the extra mile to make their FAQ better.

The_Pope · Post by **The_Pope** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:12 pm

Originally posted by A Player:
*WHEN* did I *EVER* *STATE* *THAT*? You, sir, are an idiot. Please, go and die. You can't read. I could make all my future posts in the See Spot Run style, with every word linked to it's definition on dictionary.com, and you STILL wouldn't be able to read it. Please, die. When you do, it'll surely be worthy of a Darwin Award.

Wow, you're so cool. This guy is on this board for one day anf he thinks he's the friggin' president!
Actually, you did say that people shouldn't be posting here until they have finished the game. You're just contradicting yourself. Add to that the fact that you're calling names, and that makes you one ****** ** *******. And don't start saying that I'm the one flaming other dudes on this board, at least I have the brains to state it in an intelligent matter.

Originally posted by A Player:
It's because a lot of moderators are raving idiots.

Why thank you, I'll be sure to pass that on.

Angelus · Post by **Angelus** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:12 pm

Originally posted by A Player:

Sorry I called it a FAQ. It's not. It's a FAQ/Walkthrough with a bunch of other reader submitted stuff. And as always, if you have a question not answered in a FAQ, and the answer would fall within the scope of the FAQ, then email the author. If you ask about a weird romance bug you encountered to the author of an item FAQ, they'll flame you. But if you ask it nicely to the author of a general FAQ/Walkthrough, he or she will almost always respond with an answer. If he or she doesn't know the answer, he or she will often SEARCH MESSAGE BOARDS for the answer. FAQ authors write their FAQs out of kindness, and are generally willing to go the extra mile to make their FAQ better.

I agree with that, still asking a question on a board is a lot easier than this mail business.

My opinion is that if you need information about the game you should go to a message board whether you finished the game or not, and risk the ocassional spoiler, I just think spoilers should not be encouraged and that's what you did.

dafreak · Post by **dafreak** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:14 pm

dude, guys!!!!
get over it. It was my bad. It's not really that big of a deal.

dafreak

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:20 pm

Had a post blasting you here, Pope.

We don't need a flame war though.

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: A Player ]

A Player · Post by **A Player** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:30 pm

My opinion is that if you need information about the game you should go to a message board whether you finished the game or not, and risk the ocassional spoiler, I just think spoilers should not be encouraged and that's what you did.

Regarding asking on a message board being easier, I agree. IF the FAQ doesn't have the answer, it is much easier to ask on a board. If the spoiler-anal player really wants an answer ASAP, they could avoid spoilers in subjects altogether by simply heading straight for the board's search option. The problem is how the discussions can take spoilerly turns, often without warning. Just as this thread has taken a turn into discussion about spoilers and is now taking a turn into a flamewar between me and Pope.

As far as encouraging spoilers goes, I encourage spoilers AND responsible information gathering on the part of the spoiler-anal(such as myself).

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » Thu Apr 19, 2001 1:34 pm

Originally posted by A Player:

Just as this thread has taken a turn into discussion about spoilers and is now taking a turn into a flamewar between me and Pope.

I would ask both you and the pope to take personal discussion to e-mail or some other form of communication. This forum is not the place for personal flame wars.